Sudanese boy stabbed to death in City

[Moosh]

See it's not all rose tints in Adelaide.

 

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=664633

 

Crime is everywhere.

[Guest Kazzarazza]

Yeah you're right, unfortunately. What happened yesterday was awful. It needs to be said though, that this didn't appear to be random. It was one Sudanese gang versus another Sudanese gang and the repercussions from this could be huge. It will certainly put into question the services provided to refugees and the education they are given (important to distinguish between refugees and immigrants) when they are displaced, as these people have been. Let's hope something like this never happens again.

[Diane]

I must admit this highlighted one of my biggest fears about Adelaide - that migrants will come here and bring their problems with them, as the Sudanese have done in this case (it was a tribal issue apparently), rather than integrating. It worries me too that with all the talk of knife culture taking hold in the UK, the UK migrants will bring children with those attitudes and we'll start to have the same thing here. Obviously I'm not saying all migrants will do this (as if!) but it only takes a few to drag things down to the lowest common denominator....

 

There, but for the grace of God, go we....

[Guest smit]

Unfortunately , some immigrants, refugees bring their level of crime and way of living with them........................look at the Kosovans , croats , albanians, sudanese .......................do I need to go on!, in England....They are not used to living in an english way where everyday crime isnt so barbaric...............Australia will and is going the same way.Asians , sudanese, lebanese.

[Scousemouse]

Hmmmm,

does anyone else think Mr Evens may have a point about immigration???

 

The problem here seems to be that the powers that be, have put opposing factions of assylum seekers in close proximity............the perpertrators should be re-patriated with IMMEDIATE EFFECT. Why should law abiding, genuine people, regardless of migrant status, pay for jailing them?

 

Sadly, it isn't until something like this happens that anyone does anything!

 

As an economic migrant, i don't expect to be considered "special" ( even though i am, personally); i just want to work, live and play in peace with my neighbours.........whatever their colour, creed, sexual persuasion; is it too much to ask for????

[Guest Devon]

Totally agree with Smit that Australia will and is changing.

I remember the Hallett Cove newsletter when we first moved here (sad I know but I read it) there wasn't that much crime reported on it. The copy this week had a lot of different types of crime reported. Not saying it is immigrants etc as I obviously don't know (and wouldn't want to) but I can definately see a change already

[Guest swampo]

It is worrying that some of the less desirable behaviour of migrants will, and is,a fecting life in Adelaide. Lets hope that someone in government has the balls and acts quickly to resolve the problems, even if it means sending these 'factions' back to where they came from. Otherwise Adelaide will soon be no better than the UK or those other places we see on the news. It is a very controversial subject but one of the reason we came here was to get away from this problem in the UK.

[Rachiegarlo]

It's ok talking about sending these people back, but what the situation is ...there is no back, these kids (and that is what they are) have lived this life where the differing tribes have come into their villages , killing and raping, breaking up the families and therefore customs etc. Some have been soldiers themselves. They have often lived in camps for many years, again surviving without senior family members to guide them.

 

Now they are here it is difficult for them to shake off, forget etc. It is so not the same as Western kids running amok. I'm not saying it's right, but Australia has always taken in refugees in one form or another. Italians, Balts, English, Vietnamese.....now the Sudanese. Hopefully the younger kids will get a chance to have childhoods, but the teenage boys need a lot of help, prob more than they are getting. Plus they are adapting to a Western lifestyle where absolute obedience to anyone elder in your family is not inherent and they find themselves between cultures, same happened with Italian and Greek kids. Before the Sudanese started to arrive there were stabbings between gangs of Vietnamese. Don't assume the whole country is going to pot.

[Guest Mick and Helen]

I wouldnt call the English refugees, we have to have something to offer this country before we are allowed in. Also at a great cost to ourselves, what do these people have to offer...........nothing!!

[Rachiegarlo]

Ummm I was talking about in the past and not just in the literal sense of "refugees" .History sees some English escaping the horrors of war and the following deprivations, also some English children were shipped out alone. It doesn't matter whether you paid a penny or several thousands to get here, I'm sure EVERYONE has something to offer. It can not be said that people who are given asylum willnever have anything to offer. I was not having a swipe at English migrant just stating that there have been many people from many different countries who have been given a place here whether they bought it or not and the country still hasn'tgone to pot yet!

[Scousemouse]

This is a rather emotive subject; let's not all forget that.

 

Refugees.........those seeking refuge from acts of agression etc,are subject to the same laws as everyone else! There is NO EXCUSE for continuing the problems they wish to escape............or using said acts to gain a way to remain in any country by means of incarceration.

 

Migrants........those moving to another country for work/ economic/ educational purposes; are subject to many rigorous checks, and financial encumberances. I doubt that the bulk of English, Italian, American etc migrants are coming to australia to continue to live the way they have in their homelands!

I would say many of us are actually looking to start afresh; and i know my kids WONT be carrying knives, toting pistols or carrying out acts of wanton vandalism..............it's what i want to get them away from.

 

Sad this boy has died; sadder still for his mother; but the fact remains that the pupertrator, should and must be sent back..........clearly their mentality hasn't changed.

 

Councelling wont work, re-education wont work and this a fact.

 

Enough of my soapboxing now!

[Guest Mick and Helen]

well said, these people will not change their mentality regardless of where they live, just ask the Spanish about the Russian mafia etc

[Guest Libby1971]

Right I have seen a red haze at some outrageous comments! Comments such as 'at least we have something to offer...what do these people have nothing.' and another that mentions 'sending these people back to where they came from' are two of my particular favourites

 

In short, go back to the UK because if you are bringing that kind of mentality here, then go away, Australia doesn't want it or need it. How dare you assume you have the right to judge someone based on how skilled you think you are? How do you know what they have to offer? Clearly kindness and common decency is beyond you, manners were left at customs but that doesn't stop you in your ivory tower from casting aside all reason and declaring yourself a moral authority. You have no concept of their life before they came to Australia. Maybe that is why we, as Brits, have to prove ourselves in the skills/ trade routes because these people do not need to prove themselves in anyway, possibly they have been through enough and just need to be safe.

 

Part of Adelaide's problems stem from the fact that people from all backgrounds bring their children with them. These children have been exposed to a variety of situations and behave in a way that is not always desirable, and they do not have the maturity to always make a distinction. Migrants means us. We are bringing our culture, and all its violence here. You can't stop the hands of time and make Adelaide into a quaint little rural retreat on the other side of the world. It is a city, people live in cities, not all people get on, therefore someone at some time is going to get a smack in the mouth.

 

Spanish and Russian mafia? Have you heard yourself? Who gives a sh*t about Spain or Russia or the mafia for that matter!

 

As for the reading between the lines and trying to work it out what people are trying to say, here comes a bolt from the blue...

 

Adelaide has more to fear from the Brits and their numbers than from the Sudanese. Why? Coz we are bloody everywhere. And there is always some a*sehole on a street corner, or in a carpark, or getting on my nerves somewhere wearing a baseball cap and thinking he/she is the Big I Am, causing trouble by being rude, and wouldn't you know it? Just as I start to lose patience altogether he/ she talks and they are from the UK. Hallett Cove now has a reputation because of the number of Brits who have gone there. The kids have nowhere to go so stand outside the aged mall, making people nervous. Seaford is another area with a rapidly growing similar reputation. Christies Beach High School is undesirable, in fact it has one of the worst reputations in Adelaide, but the second worse is not in Elizabeth, it is Seaford R-12. Why? Well there are no Sudanese there I can tell you. But there are a shed load of Brits.

 

I am not saying that All Sudanese are innocent, nor am I saying that all Brits are bad. But you absolutely cannot take any kind of moral high ground in this kind of situation. A child is dead. This isn't about bl**dy racial policies. A child has not gone home to his mother. His friends in year 9 are not able to talk to him. Where is your compassion? Shame on you.

[Scousemouse]

Libby,

you are absolutely right to be outraged; there does seem to be a certain lack of human kindness; and if my comments have upset you, i apologise, unreservedly.

 

To explain myself better;

Refugees, in my humble opinion, can, and do contribute to society. However, in order for them to intergrate into the culture of the host nation, someone, somewhere must be mindful of the "tribal" differences of such people, and afford consideration to each faction..........not put them together to facilitate such sad actions! This does not advocate a ghetto culture, either.

The lowlife who killed the boy, clearly, has done little to recognise that they, too are trying to live away from such wickedness that permeates their homeland. Therefore, they will not attempt to accept others way of thinking. They have broken the law, and punishment should be swift, cost effective, and send a clear message to others who are seemingly, determined to perpetuate their differences.

 

I accept that, some, youngsters, who as you kindly point out, have "nowhere" to go, are congregating in large numbers, and it makes us nervous. Not all of these kids, are troublesome, surely. Until i know better, and am enlightened, are they fighting against each other? Are they looking to commit senseless violence on indigenous, for want of a better phrase, aussie citizens?

 

I am sorry you have been upset, and truly, i didnt mean to offend, but until people like "us" actually moot these ideas to those in authority, very little will get done. I have written and e-mailed many a politician in the uk, to no avail.........i had 2 replies saying that the "cost and considerationof such action" would "outweigh any benefit".

[pablo]

Ummm I was talking about in the past and not just in the literal sense of "refugees" .History sees some English escaping the horrors of war and the following deprivations, also some English children were shipped out alone. It doesn't matter whether you paid a penny or several thousands to get here, I'm sure EVERYONE has something to offer. It can not be said that people who are given asylum willnever have anything to offer. I was not having a swipe at English migrant just stating that there have been many people from many different countries who have been given a place here whether they bought it or not and the country still hasn'tgone to pot yet!

hello rachiegarlo, im new on PIA, but ive got to say EVERYONE DOESNT have something to offer, i would like to think the way you do but i cant, i know i will probably get slated for saying this.... but isnt it nearly allways the "ethnic groups" who have this trouble following them? tbh rachel what you are saying brings to mind what a lot of the lefties in england say, its just simply not true that everyone has something to offer ,did the sudanese kids have to have a police check for instance? if they did can you put any store by a sudanese police check?!like some of the posters have said....we are coming to oz hoping that crime etc is at a much lower level( NOT PARADISE ,BUT...)and immigration is much more strictly controlled, i am emmigrating from lpool, and at the moment we have 2 or 3 shootings a week here, so i doubt anywhere in oz is as bad as where i was brought up, but like i say ,i just get realy cheesed off when people start making excuses for people acting like scum, and before all the posts start flying in about me being a racist, IM NOT, just stating facts instead of being PC, dont mean to offend anyone,but people know right from wrong no matter if they are from bosnia or africa

[Scousemouse]

Not racist, Pablo, and i dont recall anyone saying that here!!

 

As a fellow scouser, you surely have faced some form of discrimination from others, just because of the way you speak. Not slating, just a gentle reminder.............tolerence is sadly lacking in todays society.

 

A poor kid is dead; his mother grieves, we all feel sad that people can't or wont at least TRY to make an effort.

 

It is shock and disgust that has prompted some of the posts.........

 

Nite all

[Scousemouse]

ps............2 or 3 shootings a week????? Are we in the same Liverpool; or do you know something we don't??????

[Guest Mick and Helen]

I am not getting drawn into this argument any further, Libby what gives you the right to decide who stays and who returns to th UK,and to judge people.My comments on here are purely my own opinion.

[Rachiegarlo]

I have no tolerance for looney leftist tokenism, but I do believe in humanitarian causes. Australia has successfully given a home to all kinds of people regardless of whether they have education, skills , money. Many of the displaced people housed here have built new lives after escaping from violence and deprivation, whether asian, european or african. I will never tolerate people being labelled as being a waste of space with some groups being supposedly more useful.

 

Giving youths a chance in a new country is one of the things Australia has always done. But it is recognised that children who have been brought up in violence and survived by killing can not just snap out of it. They do need more help than a child who comes here from a settled home, food readily available and a whole family behind them.

 

I have seen soldiers returned from war zones immediately duck when hearing fireworks. Similarly People who are used to violence may immediately see an unfortunate event like this as the cascade into behaviour they have left behind. There have been violent acts between aboriginal, asian and other gangs here in the past but in the main our youth still feel safe in their city.

 

Many of these sudanese as I said before have no homes, many have been born in refugee camps, there is no where for them to go. send them back to Sudan so they can be recruited as boy soldiers, or killed in the racial fighting? Do you not think that is why they left or their families sent them out in the first place, just as the vietnamese risked leaky boats to escape their regimes. Reminds me of the happy chappy in Qld who when people were being asked to help the viet refugees sent an envelope containing 2 bullets and a note saying that would take care of 2 of them.

 

My point is not one of us can afford to be smug about our position in Australia. We've all come from somewhere else, bringing our own views etc. No one is a waste of space and certainly no young person. Yes wrong is wrong, but these kids need help, some may never recover but maybe no one ever gave them a starting chance anyway.

 

This thread is not really helpful to anyone as once again a thread is turning into something potentially not nice. Sure air your views on things that may help others in their choice to seek a new life here, but there are plenty of other more appropriate forums available for discussions and debates on topics such as this.

[Guest Simon&Hayleigh]

well everybody, I have watched this thread closely and initially I refused to let myself get involved, but I am afraid I can no longer keep silent.

 

Yes nobody wants to offend anybody and everybody tip toes around being politically correct and the bottom line in my opinion is: NO EXCUSES. This is not Sudan, this is not Bosnia, this is AUSTRALIA!!! This country has given millions sanctuary, safety and a better life, millions have chosen to repay this country by abiding by the laws and NOT creating mayhem in the streets like this group of cold blooded thugs. Why must our safety be jeopardised? What if one of your family or friends were innocently walking down that street and ended up getting hurt because of a Sudanese gang war being played out on AUSTRALIAN soil? I know how I would feel, and I know how angry I would feel if somebody said to me "oh please understand, they had a terrible life in Sudan, exposed to violence etc, thats why they are behaving like this...." Well if I wanted to expose myself and my family to Sudanese violence, I would have immigrated to Sudan!!!!

 

Now before everybody jumps on my back for not being compassionate to refugees and their plight, let me explain why I have this viewpoint: We all understand the difficult plight of refugees from war torn countries, alot of these youths have little or no family unit to speak of and problems adjusting etc. BUT A LINE HAS TO BE DRAWN! Innocent law abiding citizens must get priority, why must we suffer? Adelaide has taken a huge knock from a tourism and general safety and security feeling point of view over this incident. I say NO EXCUSES, ZERO TOLERANCE AND SWIFT PUNISHMENT!

 

Getting away from this kind of behaviour is a huge reason why a lot of us are making this move, I have to sign an acceptance of Australian Values (which I sign with pride) and prove I am of good character via police clearances etc, so I would like to be protected, especially from anyone causing mayhem in the streets that has not even been forced to meet such criteria!!!

 

And those who want join a a Sudanese, Asian, or whatever gang in Australia, perhaps you should go back and join a gang in Sudan or Asia or wherever!!! Respect the land that feeds, clothes and shelters you, don't kick it in the teeth!

 

Well my soap box is starting to creek, not my ideal choice for a first post but hey, we have to speak our minds!

 

Cheers everybody!

Simon (Next post will be shorter and more cheerful, promise!)

[Rachiegarlo]

I believe the police are handling it but not in a nazi-ish fashion. I'm a law abiding (apart from parking ) innocent adelaide resident and I don't feel threatened or unsafe. This is tribal stuff, no different to catholics v. protestants in Northern Ireland really. The international flights are still bussing in loads of people. There will be no excuses etc for this act of violence but my prob is with the I'm a migrant so I'm better than..... slant to this thread. Anyways as people know it still makes the headlines here and people find it shocking BECAUSE it happens infrequently.

[Guest Libby1971]

Simon, you are right. There does need to be an acceptance of values. I am sorry if it is my post which may have offended you.

 

I think I made it clear which kind of blanket comments upset me. This is my opinion, just as others have stated theirs. I do not claim to be judge and jury. I do say that comments need to be considerate of the content. Children dying is horrendous, and I feel for this child, and his family and friends as I am sure we all do. I just thought a touch more sensitivity was required given the subject matter.

 

I think it is important to state that violence is everywhere, whether we like it or not. Australia is not immune. Okay, the Sudanese are caught up in this one. But the majority of violence here is caused by biker gangs and druggies. You don't read about them so much because everyone expects biker gangs to kill each other. I suspect that quite a few people would be pleased if they killed each other totally. We assume that we know the facts upon which refugees are granted entry into Australia. Quite honestly the whole visa granting process changes so much, who knows what the criteria are? We are all familiar with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and the impact that war and conflict can have on soldiers who are trained for this. Children who come to see violence as a normal part of life will use violence as part of their everyday life.

 

As for punishment, I am a firm believer in an eye for an eye. The punishment must fit the crime and act as a deterrent for those who might perpetrate it in the future. However, as a blanket one size fits all, I think it can be a slippery slope. I wish the UK had a stronger backbone to stand up to the political correctness gone mad which has diluted our society so much that it now doesn't know what it is anymore.

 

This thread is not about targetting those of one ethnic persuasion and condemning them. This thread is about pointing out the reality of life in Adelaide, and that there are issues here just as in the UK. Not as much violence as the UK, but those seeking to enter a peaceful Utopia may well be very disappointed.

[Guest Libby1971]

I believe the police are handling it but not in a nazi-ish fashion. I'm a law abiding (apart from parking ) innocent adelaide resident and I don't feel threatened or unsafe. This is tribal stuff, no different to catholics v. protestants in Northern Ireland really. The international flights are still bussing in loads of people. There will be no excuses etc for this act of violence but my prob is with the I'm a migrant so I'm better than..... slant to this thread. Anyways as people know it still makes the headlines here and people find it shocking BECAUSE it happens infrequently.

 

:notworthy:

[scooterdan]

This is a shocking event to happen in such a small place like Adelaide....I myself am not affraid to go out!!

 

IMHO if you come here, refugee or immigrant, and you commit such a crime you should be sent back...you dont deserve to be here!

 

Dan

[Guest Simon&Hayleigh]

Hi Libby

 

No worries, no offence taken at all!!

 

I understand and respect that you were expecting a more sensitive reaction from everyone posting, at the end of the day a child has been taken from his family in cold blood as a result of mob violence, so yes you are entirely correct, I feel we should all show more sensitivity and compassion.

 

I cannot speak for everybody else, but i feel a source of the lack of sensitivity is the fact that a large number of us are making this move to get away from increasing gang, ethnic and criminal violence incidents happening in the UK and elsewhere. So it has created a bit of a 'bursting of a bubble' for some of us in realising that this is now happening in Adelaide, which has created a bit of angry lashing out. Obviously naievity has played a huge part here, Australia is not a perfect Utopia. I personally don't believe that expressing this anger in a fair and controlled way is bad at all though, it is a way of making sure the powers that be are overwhelmed with one clear message, zero tolerance for violent criminals, whether they are British, Sudanese, Asians, whites, blacks, chinese, footballers, golfers refugees, immigrants, police, politicians, bikers, druggies, circus clowns, martians or whoever it might be!! I am sure that even the most liberal of us will agree, there is NO place for gang, tribal, ethnic or any type of violence on the streets of Adelaide! The reaction by the Police and Australians in general has indicated that most feel this way.

 

Libby I agree 100 percent on the post traumatic stress syndrome, and soldiers being conditioned to kill issues that you mention. Australia does huge amounts of humanatarian work including providing a safe home for refugees and displaced people etc. My question is: where do you draw the line? For some people the line will be crossed only when an innocent bystander is killed or hurt during tribal /gang activity, but for others a line may already have been crossed just by the fact that Adelaide has been the scene of what is basically an external conflict. Australia did not cause the conflict in Sudan which caused these people to sadly be displaced, so why should Australia and Australians have to deal with this? AUSTRALIAN soldiers returning with post traumatic stress syndrome from serving AUSTRALIA should be Australia's problem, not SUDANESE soldiers who's conflict had nothing to do with Australia.

 

I think this is what is upsetting a lot of people and contributing to the lack of sensitivity, the fact that it is essentially seen as an 'external' conflict being played out on the streets of Adelaide. As Rachiegarlo correctly said "This is tribal stuff, no different to catholics v. protestants in Northern Ireland really." I think there is a difference however, the key word in her statement is "IN" , this tribal conflict is IN Adelaide!

 

Rachiegarlo, I am in no way advocating any nazi-ish behaviour from the police, this has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, religion etc, in my opinion what has upset people is that it is a continuation of the troubles that were brought into Australia by the people who are seeking refuge from those very troubles! If Protestants and Catholics of Irish descent who came to Australia to seek a better life, started fighting on the streets of Adelaide, I would feel just as strongly about telling them that if that's how they want to behave "take your fight back to Ireland!!"

 

But guys, I am starting to sound like somebody who loves the sound of their own voice! I respect all your opinions, so lets be friends!? Adelaide will survive!!!

 

Cheers

Simon