The Australian Experience factor ....

[Petal38]

Hi folks,

 

I've seen it mentioned many times on here about the significance that is placed on Oz experience - and to be honest i really don't get it!!

 

Especially being prepared to work for less money until you have this Oz experience. I mean, surely at the end of the day Australia has an economic need for people skilled in the various niche areas of their skills lists, we all go through a lengthy (and costly!!) process to secure a visa (which shows our commitment to making a go of life in Oz), plus then the significant cost of moving there ..... to then be expected to work for less than our skills/experience are worth?! My husband worked in Sydney for a few months several years ago ... would that count as Oz experience if we came to Adelaide?

 

Not many people emigrating to Oz are going to have Oz experience are they .... because they're moving there now.

 

But what about all the valuable experience/approaches we all bring from the country we have been working in prior to Oz - the local population in Oz isn't likely to have that are they. I just don't get this whole 'local' experience thing? Is it just a way to pay people less than they are worth and save employers money. For example, my husband (IT) worked in Germany for 6 months in 2014 and wasn't expected to work for less just because he hadn't happened to work in Germany before - in fact he got paid more as he was providing skills that particular company needed and didn't have in-house.

 

Especially in a field like IT - writing code at a certain level, wherever you are in the world, is essentially the same thing.

 

This general theme is causing me some concern as I anticipate that a property equivalent to where we live now (Newcastle, North East England) will cost more in Adelaide, and the cost of living will probably be a bit more expensive too. If we're going to be paid less, it makes me wonder, is it worth the move. We've also got a young family, so we're not at the retirement stage of life, but the stage that requires ever more money.

 

Or am i missing something folks? Interested to hear any comments, thanks!

[NicF]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. There are employers that will use lack of Australian experience not to hire someone, but this is usually just an excuse really, unless the job is one where there are specific Australian rules and regulations. In IT you are more likely to get that you lack experience in a particular industry. The pay thing isn't quite like it sounds either. It's not that people get paid less for doing the same work but rather they start out on a pay grade or two below what they were previously in order to get in to the work place. In my experience it is the more junior jobs that are the more plentiful and therefore more likely to be available when looking for work. What you should probably be aware of though is that in the public and education sector places do have pay grades and you will be on a pay scale rather than being able to negotiate a rate. Some of these organisations will have some flexibility to offer an additional amount over the pay grade for exceptional candidates or someone with rare skills but this would not be the norm. I'm not sure about the private sector though.

[kelbert]

Yes, I agree with above don't worry about it. My employers recruited me from the UK because they didn't have anyone with the appropriate skills and experience in Oz! My husband got offered the first job he applied for too and he had no Oz experience either! Don't get me wrong, employment is an issue here and we certainly don't have an abundance of choices on the job market so we are lucky we are happy in our jobs but if you have the right skills and experience then if the employers like you they'll hire you!

Ps we lived in the NW of England before we emigrated and we have a house we would never be able to afford in the UK, plus a much better lifestyle! Good luck with whatever you decide ☺

[Petal38]

Thanks for taking the time to write your replies NicF and Kelbert - feel better informed about the 'experience' side of things now!

 

Kelbert, how long ago did you make the move out of interest?

[deryans]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. There are employers that will use lack of Australian experience not to hire someone, but this is usually just an excuse really, unless the job is one where there are specific Australian rules and regulations. In IT you are more likely to get that you lack experience in a particular industry. The pay thing isn't quite like it sounds either. It's not that people get paid less for doing the same work but rather they start out on a pay grade or two below what they were previously in order to get in to the work place. In my experience it is the more junior jobs that are the more plentiful and therefore more likely to be available when looking for work. What you should probably be aware of though is that in the public and education sector places do have pay grades and you will be on a pay scale rather than being able to negotiate a rate. Some of these organisations will have some flexibility to offer an additional amount over the pay grade for exceptional candidates or someone with rare skills but this would not be the norm. I'm not sure about the private sector though.

 

 

I apologise in advance and I do hope you don't take this personally ... but..... given the current economic climate in south australia, you are misleading the poster.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. There are employers that will use lack of Australian experience not to hire someone, but this is usually just an excuse really, .

 

Unprofessional and biased recruitment practices, unconscious bias, in-group discrimination and entirely illegal and counter productive attitudes in untransparent recruitment , in a word, reputation damage. It's easy to throw roses and saying "Honestly I wouldn't worry about it" is one of the most irresponsible thing's i've read on an online forum.

 

 

unless the job is one where there are specific Australian rules and regulations.

 

OP has said her husband works in Govt and investment banking (none in adelaide sadly), specifically in 3/4gl/C++ a discipline almost exclusively used by specialist Military/Aviation and firmware programming in defence contracting in SA. Bank SA or any other large commercial outfit in Adelaide (are there any left ?) is unlikely to need those skills, but the Military will, and they will require at a minimum solid SC and at worst Citizenship.

 

 

The pay thing isn't quite like it sounds either. It's not that people get paid less for doing the same work but rather they start out on a pay grade or two below what they were previously in order to get in to the work place.

 

Frankly, that is entirely conjecture on your part, and dangerous conjecture at that, the OP's husband ain't going to walk into a 150K aud job (which equates roughly to a baby contractor starter rate in the UK with that Skill set) in SA straight off the boat, unless he nails down the job with the MIL/Defence before he arrives, otherwise he's just another "resource" looking for a start in a dying and contracting marketplace : Ad-dull-ade

 

 

What you should probably be aware of though is that in the public and education sector places do have pay grades and you will be on a pay scale rather than being able to negotiate a rate.

 

Incorrect, if a business case can be made to bring you on board and the funding can be found then pay-scales don't apply as you will be tied to a project or a program of work that makes use of your unique skill and experience (aussie experience in my case), as I was when I worked for the public service, I was certainly well paid and equivalent to SA exec level, just no tenure and having to watch executives who could barely tie their shoe laces whilst the potential of their young staff was wasted was too depressing.

 

 

sadly, everything you say is general and non specific, it would be good if you could give a concrete example to the original poster, but it seems you can't ?

 

 

I'm not sure about the private sector though.

 

 

neither are they....

 

 

Finally,

 

I suggest Melbourne or Sydney, OP will do very nicely with those skills if he's any good.

Edited January 7, 2016 by deryans
format & spelling

[KennyKen]

Deryans is spot on again. Adelaide is a definite No go Zone for employment opportunities

[kelbert]

Thanks for taking the time to write your replies NicF and Kelbert - feel better informed about the 'experience' side of things now!

 

Kelbert, how long ago did you make the move out of interest?

 

We have been here 14 months

[snifter]

Deryans is spot on again. Adelaide is a definite No go Zone for employment opportunities

 

The OP wasn't asking about that, but about Australian experience and if that holds any water. Do you have anything to offer regarding that aspect to help the OP?

 

I appreciate Adelaide is not easy for everyone, some struggle to find work, to keep in it and this can cause disillusionment, resentment, anger and more. I'd possibly feel the same if it were happening to us. Or I might just do what we always do and pick ourselves up, get to it and go make a go of it somewhere else that appeals. No move anywhere has to be forever in my book. If one place in a country doesn't work for you, doesn't mean the whole country is bad, or that place is bad for everyone or you have to sit and suffer it.

 

Others have moved here and found work with a bit more ease and it didn't take them months and months to secure it.

 

Everyone will have their own story to tell about their migration. There is no right or wrong and each person is going to see things differently. Some people will have negative experiences, stories, others will have good ones, positive ones. The job market here is tough atm though I know of a few people in recent times who changed jobs or found work. Its not all doom and gloom everywhere you look.

 

Any prospective migrant needs to do their homework on where they want to settle to begin with. If they want to go to Sydney or Melbourne (with the plus and negative points thoe cities may present to them) or elsewhere its up to them. If after everything they read they want to try Adelaide, then so long as they are coming with their eyes open and are perhaps prepared it won't be easy in the job hunting (although it may well be fine, no one can know or say) then they are able to decide themselves.

 

I remember in the months before we moved over there were so many doom and gloom stories on forums I was reading. I read them and at one point did sit and wonder what we were thinking of but then I knew me and I knew that whatever was said, I needed to find out for myself and that it wasn't an open and closed case of Aus/UK or bust. We kept an open mind, knew we'd do what we needed to make it work and 2 and bit years on, we are very content and happy and glad we made the move.

[deryans]

The OP wasn't asking about that, but about Australian experience and if that holds any water. Do you have anything to offer regarding that aspect to help the OP?

 

I appreciate Adelaide is not easy for everyone, some struggle to find work, to keep in it and this can cause disillusionment, resentment, anger and more. I'd possibly feel the same if it were happening to us. Or I might just do what we always do and pick ourselves up, get to it and go make a go of it somewhere else that appeals. No move anywhere has to be forever in my book. If one place in a country doesn't work for you, doesn't mean the whole country is bad, or that place is bad for everyone or you have to sit and suffer it.

 

Others have moved here and found work with a bit more ease and it didn't take them months and months to secure it.

 

Everyone will have their own story to tell about their migration. There is no right or wrong and each person is going to see things differently. Some people will have negative experiences, stories, others will have good ones, positive ones. The job market here is tough atm though I know of a few people in recent times who changed jobs or found work. Its not all doom and gloom everywhere you look.

 

Any prospective migrant needs to do their homework on where they want to settle to begin with. If they want to go to Sydney or Melbourne (with the plus and negative points thoe cities may present to them) or elsewhere its up to them. If after everything they read they want to try Adelaide, then so long as they are coming with their eyes open and are perhaps prepared it won't be easy in the job hunting (although it may well be fine, no one can know or say) then they are able to decide themselves.

 

I remember in the months before we moved over there were so many doom and gloom stories on forums I was reading. I read them and at one point did sit and wonder what we were thinking of but then I knew me and I knew that whatever was said, I needed to find out for myself and that it wasn't an open and closed case of Aus/UK or bust. We kept an open mind, knew we'd do what we needed to make it work and 2 and bit years on, we are very content and happy and glad we made the move.

 

a very reasoned response snifter, to avoid confusion, the comments are directed at Adelaide , recruitment and the australian experience question, this is not as some people seem unable to distinguish an attack on Australia, we spent a very fruitful 9 odd years in sydney before adelaide and we loved it.

 

Sydney and Melbourne are very very different places, with substantial infrastructure, investment and a much thicker job market.

 

If I were emigrating again, and I had some 12-15 years experience after spending some hard years getting on the employment ladder, time and money through Uni , professional development and had worked my way up to a level of competence and professionalism over those 15 years, I would not wish to throw away that potential, that professionalism and that drive in a market that knows neither what to do with that resource, nor values me for what I am capable of or experienced in, because of cliques, negative bias and nepotism.

 

It's just not worth it, it is just too much to sacrifice and as you say it can be soul destroying if you take pride in your work and are professional.

[snifter]

a very reasoned response snifter, to avoid confusion, the comments are directed at Adelaide , recruitment and the australian experience question, this is not as some people seem unable to distinguish an attack on Australia, we spent a very fruitful 9 odd years in sydney before adelaide and we loved it.

 

Sydney and Melbourne are very very different places, with substantial infrastructure, investment and a much thicker job market.

 

If I were emigrating again, and I had some 12-15 years experience after spending some hard years getting on the employment ladder, time and money through Uni , professional development and had worked my way up to a level of competence and professionalism over those 15 years, I would not wish to throw away that potential, that professionalism and that drive in a market that knows neither what to do with that resource, nor values me for what I am capable of or experienced in, because of cliques, negative bias and nepotism.

 

It's just not worth it, it is just too much to sacrifice and as you say it can be soul destroying if you take pride in your work and are professional.

 

I know they are directed at Adelaide, you have little, nay nothing to say employment wise that is good about it iirc . I appreciate your views deryans but to reiterate, my point was that sometimes people have a big axe to grind re Adelaide for whatever reason that is personal to them and offer very little in the way of insight and feedback on it all or answer peoples specific questions, just knock it in simple broad sweeping terms and not much more. Sure some of it is legitimate complaint, perhaps all of it, but without something a bit more substantial to back it up it doesn't help anyone much at all IMHO.

[Jessica Berry]

As with most things, one size doesn't fit all! In my opinion (from a HR/Recruitment perspective) sometimes asking for Australian experience is justified and other times it is used as a reason to not select someone. It depends on the job, the applicant, the recruiter, the organisation, the skill set, the circumstances surrounding the role requirement etc etc.

 

My OH working in IT (and also being involved in recruiting staff in Adelaide) has found his skills have been in demand from week one and he didn't have any Australian experience when we arrived. He works within a diverse team with employees from England, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, India (gets interesting in their office when cricket is on!!), Ireland, Philippines and Malaysia.

 

There are also organisations in Adelaide which have a 'reputation' and locals steer clear of, (this can also be the case with 457 visas where they struggle to recruit to the position). The positive of this is that as a fresh off the boat migrant they will probably hire you straight away, so if you can stick with it for 6-12 months and gain local work experience, contacts, an Australian referee then move on to bigger and better things. You just need to understand how to handle the situation.

 

I think people need to ask themselves (and be honest) why are we emigrating, what are we looking for? If the top of your list is about your career and the money you will earn (and there is nothing wrong with that, if that is your motivator) then you need to make sure you carefully research if Adelaide can offer you that.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Jessica Berry

[deryans]

I'm not making it up you know............

 

http://www.sapo.org.au/pub/pub885.html here's the link http://www.sapo.org.au/binary/binary706/Landry.pdf

 

Jessica,

 

May I ask you do you hold Recruitment SA/Aus /training/accreditation if there is such a thing, on diversity and non bias ? It's not a trick question, Because if you do then you've really got your work cut out for you in Adelaide.

Edited January 10, 2016 by deryans

[Jessica Berry]

This appears to be an example of where no Australian experience is required and where someone from overseas was actively targeted (there are other examples in different industries but again it depends on role/skill set etc).......

 

http://www.pomsinadelaide.com/forum/jobs-careers/47636-man-wales-here-save-adelaide.html#post325903

[Shuv71]

Deryans is spot on again. Adelaide is a definite No go Zone for employment opportunities

 

does this include construction? carpentry? thanks

[PatP]

I'm not making it up you know............

 

http://www.sapo.org.au/pub/pub885.html here's the link http://www.sapo.org.au/binary/binary706/Landry.pdf

 

Jessica,

 

May I ask you do you hold Recruitment SA/Aus /training/accreditation if there is such a thing, on diversity and non bias ? It's not a trick question, Because if you do then you've really got your work cut out for you in Adelaide.

Deryans the way your messages come across seems to be that Adelaide is a lost cause probably because things didn't work out for you

Its a long time since we emigrated 1982 in fact but we had jobs within days and we were never out of work Yes the job market is much more difficult now but that's a world wide problem not just Adelaide

I agree it must be much harder to emigrate now and a lot of soul searching should be done before making the decision as having a holiday or a reccie just isn't the same as living there

[PatP]

Hi folks,

 

I've seen it mentioned many times on here about the significance that is placed on Oz experience - and to be honest i really don't get it!!

 

Especially being prepared to work for less money until you have this Oz experience. I mean, surely at the end of the day Australia has an economic need for people skilled in the various niche areas of their skills lists, we all go through a lengthy (and costly!!) process to secure a visa (which shows our commitment to making a go of life in Oz), plus then the significant cost of moving there ..... to then be expected to work for less than our skills/experience are worth?! My husband worked in Sydney for a few months several years ago ... would that count as Oz experience if we came to Adelaide?

 

Not many people emigrating to Oz are going to have Oz experience are they .... because they're moving there now.

 

But what about all the valuable experience/approaches we all bring from the country we have been working in prior to Oz - the local population in Oz isn't likely to have that are they. I just don't get this whole 'local' experience thing? Is it just a way to pay people less than they are worth and save employers money. For example, my husband (IT) worked in Germany for 6 months in 2014 and wasn't expected to work for less just because he hadn't happened to work in Germany before - in fact he got paid more as he was providing skills that particular company needed and didn't have in-house.

 

Especially in a field like IT - writing code at a certain level, wherever you are in the world, is essentially the same thing.

 

This general theme is causing me some concern as I anticipate that a property equivalent to where we live now (Newcastle, North East England) will cost more in Adelaide, and the cost of living will probably be a bit more expensive too. If we're going to be paid less, it makes me wonder, is it worth the move. We've also got a young family, so we're not at the retirement stage of life, but the stage that requires ever more money.

 

Or am i missing something folks? Interested to hear any comments, thanks!

In relation to property petals I think maybe trawl the net and look at some houses to get some ideas We left a terraced house in Sunderland ( hope you still speak to me lol ) and bought a 3 bedroom detached bungalow for practically the same price as we sold ( back in 1982 though ) We thought we had died and gone to heaven but you get to realise that a 3 bed detached is the norm We have just had a quote to take all of our furniture plus car back to Adelaide from Sunderland ( we retired back here 2 years ago but will return to Adelaide soon )!maybe pm me if your interested in price etc

[KathCats]

Hey up Petal....a fellow Northerner here....we came out 18 months ago, my partner is a programmer, he def gets paid less than the locals and yes Oz experience does count for a lot (in my experience anyway). I did voluntary work which helped, esp for references. It costs a hell of a lot of money and time and effort to get over here, and it works out for some people and others hate it. Sometimes our northern accent gets in the way!!! There are loads of English people here....not many Northerners mind, so get yourselves over here and find out all the answers x

[PatP]

Hey up Petal....a fellow Northerner here....we came out 18 months ago, my partner is a programmer, he def gets paid less than the locals and yes Oz experience does count for a lot (in my experience anyway). I did voluntary work which helped, esp for references. It costs a hell of a lot of money and time and effort to get over here, and it works out for some people and others hate it. Sometimes our northern accent gets in the way!!! There are loads of English people here....not many Northerners mind, so get yourselves over here and find out all the answers x

Hi KathCats Am a northern lass my self Sunderland and returning to Adelaide in April There is actually a strong contingent of Mackems in the southern suburbs so your not alone Lol Accent well I have had great fun with mine over the years !

[zebedee]

Been in Adelaide nearly four years, I had about 15 years IT experience as a system engineer before arriving and walked straight into a permanent job with one of the banks. Had the interview 3 days after landing. Since then I've had several job offers with IT companies but have taken a slightly lower paid, but less stressed position which has free'd up a bit of time to enjoy the things we came for. The job market in Adelaide IS limited and you have to be very careful not to burn any bridges but I haven't found that Oz experience makes any difference within the IT sector, not in Adelaide anyway. Both companies I have worked for have been diverse in their employment. That's my experience anyway.