four corners closed

[Guest darren alley]

Can anybody help?? Our migration agent ( four corners) has gone into administration, our application has been lodged and processing has commenced, however when i check on-line they have not received our state nomination or any of our paper work.

Another migration agent (migration bureau) has taken over our file and for a fee they will review our file and let us know where we are up to. having already laid out more money than we can afford. what we need to know is , from where we are in the application process is it going to be difficult to go it alone or should we at least allow this new agent to have a look at our case. any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

i hope nobody else has been affected by this.

 

 

many thanks

 

darren

 

:mad:

[cint&mark]

Hi - that's shocking news - as if the whole process isn't stressful enough... soz that have got no advice but hope things 'll sort out for you and it'll all be worth it in the end. . . Jacinta

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Darren

 

It sounds like the best thing you can do is to send Forms 956 and 1193 to the ASPC plus phone them to explain the situation and ask them to tell you exactly what has happened with your visa application so far.

 

Please see this link:

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/61566-four-corners-emigration-administration.html

 

It sounds to me like the first step is to find out what is happening, exactly, plus insist that your client file is returned to you by whoever is in charge of winding up or otherwise Administering the affairs of the company which has gone down.

 

It is absolute nonsense for another firm to announce, "I've got your file - without your prior knowledge or consent and in breach of your right to confidentiality. Pay me if you want me to read it."

 

I am not affected by this collapse. If I were and I received the impertinent letter I am hearing about, I would report all the Registered Migration Agents involved with Migration Bureau to the MARA and ask the MARA whether this is how they permit so called "professional" Registered Migration Agents to behave? If so, why because there is nothing professional about the approach so far?

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/ARSearchResult.asp?DeptID=140

 

The MARA's complaints procedure is here:

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=136

 

It is not necessary to use the printed form though it is helpful if you use the form as a crib and cover everything it asks about. I'd send two. One about the RMA involved with teh UK business called Four Corners Emigration and the other one about the 4 RMAs who seem to be involved with the new company to judge from the Register of Agents.

 

Complaints can be e-mailed to chris.thompson@mara.com.au He dealt with the collapse of Visa Connection last year & earlier this year, which resulted in the suspension of an RMA called Ashley McEwen:

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/SAViewDetail.asp?AgentNumber=0425327&SanctionID=261&AgentName=McEwen,%20Ashley&Type=Alpha&DeptID=139

 

After Visa Connection went under, Ashley McEwen joined Four Corners Emigration as a migration consultant but the rumour I heard is that he was only dealing with "sales." (That is only hearsay, though. I did not ring Ashley to ask what his role was or is because another rumour has it that although the Migration Bureau are nominally in charge, Ashley and all the other Four Corners people have allegedly been kept on. I don't know whether this is so because nobody anwered the phone on Friday when I rang the Four Corners number.) Either way though, professionals do not "sell" something to customers. Instead they accept Instructions to provide a professional service to clients, patients or parishioners depending on which profession is involved.

 

However it is up to the MARA to investigate the extent to which Ashley was involved with Four Corners. There is no doubt about Mr Garvey's involvement. The Register of Agents says that he is a Director of the UK business.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[tracy holland 1]

Hi Darren

I also have just received my letter about four corners very annoyed as i only contacted them the week before and nothing was said!!!!!

I have been in touch with the processing centre in Adelaide and have been told to fill forms 1193 and 956. I have decided to carry on with my own process but as yet have not received my file from the migration bureau despite several calls.

If you call Australia house in Adealide they are able to tell you roughly what is happening with your application the number can be found on the Australian government website www.immi.gov.au

Hope this has been some help

Tracy

[Guest Libby1971]

:wubclub:No idea how to help but wanted to say my thoughts are with all of you affected by this mess

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Tracy

 

I am sorry to hear that you are yet another victim of the collapse of Four Corners.

 

To be fair to the 4C staff they wouldn't have been told anything about the Director's plans to close the business because he would have let the staff go on the same day as appointing the Administrator.

 

If you only instructed 4C the week before it closed, had you been using another agent before that or did you do your own skills assessment?

 

Is your occupation on the new Critical Skills List?

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/critical-skills-list.pdf

 

If not, are you aware that State Sponsored and CSL applications are the only ones being processed at present?

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest polo]

Hiya Darren

 

Our family are in the same position, we have paid £95 to the Migration Bureau as in their introduction letter. Like yourself we have already paid out a substantial amount to Four Corners and the Migration Bureau are now saying we would possibly need to pay up to £1600+ for them to take our case over. As far as we were aware before Four Corners went into Admin. we just had to wait for the say so to go for our medicals, police checks etc, as our application/lodgement was submitted online in April but like you we could do with some advice.

 

Regards, Polo

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Polo

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/61648-4-corners-administration-4.html

 

http://www.pomsinoz.com/forum/migration-issues/62616-attn-please-four-corners-clients-files.html

 

Are you aware that your file - your property - has been taken to New Zealand without your prior knowledge or consent?

 

Where visa applications have been submitted to DIAC by somebody other than the visa applicant, the person who submitted the application becomes the Agent on record, acting on behalf of the visa applicant. The relevant legislation is quite clear about this: where the Agent on record is a Registered Migration Agent then the buck for every single thing relating to that visa applicant stops with the Agent on record.

 

Who is the Agent on record? In several of the cases, the evidence which is beginning to emerge via DIAC helpfully providing copy correspondence etc is that Matt Garvey is the Agent on record in some if not all of the cases:

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/ARShowAgent.asp?AgentID=9789880&DeptID=140&IKeyword=Garvey%2A&ISearchType=1&ISearchFor1=1&ISearchFor2=

 

He is a Registered Migration Agent and his main place of trading is in Sydney. He is therefore bound by law to act at all times in strict accordance with the MARA Code of Conduct:

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=188&ArticleID=209

 

Part 10 of the Code leaves no room for doubt about the correct procedure to follow when the Agent on record becomes unable to continue to act for the client concerned:

 

http://www.themara.com.au/Online/Default.asp?DeptID=210&ArticleID=234

 

The Agent on record cannot delegate his duties to an unauthorised third party in the manner which has happened. The Code contains no machinery that would permit the idea.

 

According to the MARA's own marketing hype about using Registered Migration Agents, an RMA will submit a visa application which is "decision ready." If the file submitted is decision ready then the only remaining work to be done on it will be simple clerical tasks which a 16 year old school leaver should be able to manage without difficulty.

 

Clerical tasks simply cannot justify fees of £1,700-ish (including the £95 you have already paid) or the £2,000-ish which another client caught up in this debacle told me about yesterday.

 

If either of you were to agree to these sorts of fees, when you have already paid 4C some £3,000 each (including VAT) then the only realistic analysis is that one could make 3 DIY via applications for the same price as instructing Registered Migration Agents to interfere with one's private dealings with the Australian Government just the once. Bloody expensive interference, conducted without a shred of regard for ethical behaviour, with no safety net for the clients because the MARA does not have a Fidelity Fund.

 

If this happened to me I would serve Forms 956 and 1193 on DIAC without any further delay and I would tell DIAC in no uncertain terms to communicate with nobody except me from now on in relation to my private affairs:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/956.pdf

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1193.pdf

 

DIAC see 100% of visa applications and they get roped in to having to help to rescue 100% of the victims of the migration advice industry. History with the last two recent collapsed firms of migration agents has shown that the DIAC staff go the extra mile to help the victims of the migration advice industry and DIAC do not seek to charge a penny above the visa application charge which has already been paid.

 

Personally, I would cut my losses, pay out no more and rely on DIAC to guide me through the rest of the process instead. They are not going anywhere and they exist to serve you.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest polo]

Gill

 

Thank you very much for that information and when we finally get to Oz, you (and your family) will be a main port of call to take you all out for a bevvie.

 

Cheers

 

Polo

[tracy holland 1]

Hi Tracy

 

I am sorry to hear that you are yet another victim of the collapse of Four Corners.

 

To be fair to the 4C staff they wouldn't have been told anything about the Director's plans to close the business because he would have let the staff go on the same day as appointing the Administrator.

 

If you only instructed 4C the week before it closed, had you been using another agent before that or did you do your own skills assessment?

 

Is your occupation on the new Critical Skills List?

 

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/pdf/critical-skills-list.pdf

 

If not, are you aware that State Sponsored and CSL applications are the only ones being processed at present?

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

 

 

 

Thanx for all the info i have been with 4corners for some time and my application has been lodged for 12 months (independent skilled visa) after speaking to immingration in Adelaide i now know i'm in for a long wait!!!!! . I wish now i had asked my sister to sponser me but was asvised at time it was quicker to go this way. My job is not on critical list just jobs required. Oh well back to waiting

Tracy

[tracy holland 1]

Hi

That is dreadful how can they charge that much!!!!. I have decided to carry on my application myself i have requested my file to be returned but am still waiting. I then recieved an email on Friday with their postage charges

normal post free

for them to take a copy and then post normally £25

courier £55

courier and for them to take a copy £80

 

seems they are going to get money either way.

 

I've also been in touch with immigration seems easy to continue from hear withiut an agent and they are really helpful

 

Tracy

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Tracy

 

Migration Bureau are busy doing their own reputation a simply incredible amount of damage with their petty avarice. They are also dragging the entire Aussie migration advice industry into abject disrepute along with themselves.

 

A man called Rupert Ward calls himself the "Director" of Oceania Development Group, which trades as "Migration Bureau" as far as I can gather. He is not a Registered Migration Agent but neither was the owner of Four Corners in the UK.

 

I am not a migration agent (thank god because there is no way that I would want my own name to be sullied by the disreputable antics of this industry.) However I do know a couple of reputable RMAs. I am trying to get them to lean on Rupert Ward and to tell him how much sheer harm he is doing to his own company as well as to the industry as a whole.

 

In the short term, though, the only thing I can suggest is that you complain loud and long to the MARA and see whether they can bring any pressure to bear on the situation.

 

Anybody who wants direct contact details for Rupert Ward is welcome to PM me and I will give you the details. Enough is enough and I do not believe that this man deserves any sort of protection, frankly.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest stufi1997]

Hi All,

So sorry to hear there has been more people left in the lurch...we initially started with migration bureau and got out quick smart after their first ream of bills...I still get furious when I read their name, total rip off merchants IN MY OPINION, We recouped some of our money from them and did it ourselves in the end. Good luck and best wishes to all of you. Fiona xx

[Guest polo]

Hi Fiona

 

Thanks for that. Hopefully we will get there eventually. Although I have to say that Matt Garvey from Four Corners, Oz has been a great help to us, he has answered all our questions and responded to every email. We are still waiting for the return of our stuff from Migration Bureau plus another charge for sending it back to us, but hey-ho that's life isn't it! You gotta keep on smiling. Best of luck to everybody in the same boat.

 

Polo

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Fiona

 

Thanks for that. Hopefully we will get there eventually. Although I have to say that Matt Garvey from Four Corners, Oz has been a great help to us, he has answered all our questions and responded to every email. We are still waiting for the return of our stuff from Migration Bureau plus another charge for sending it back to us, but hey-ho that's life isn't it! You gotta keep on smiling. Best of luck to everybody in the same boat.

 

Polo

 

 

Hi Polo

 

Is Matt Garvey trying to charge you for his help or has he now woken up to the fact that he is potentially in HUGE trouble with the MARA for his own earlier doziness?

 

Matt Garvey's licence to practice as an RMA is now on the wire as a result of his own earlier activities. In his shoes I would suddenly be seen to be whiter than white (for a change) by offering to help every single ex Four Corners client at absolutely NO further cost to that client by way of "professional fees" for a so-called "service" which has been absolutely unprofessional up until now.

 

When Registered Migration Agents are the ones who choose to turn the Register of Agents into nothing more than a totally unreliable comic of a publication, they need to be the first to realise that what goes around comes around and eventually bites the culprit in the rear end. I have zero sympathy for the culprits because any half-decent standard of "professional ethics" on their own parts would have prevented them from ever agreeing to get involved with any sort of shonky Rent-a-MARN activities in the first place.

 

The practice of Rent-a-MARN should be illegal and should carry a mandatory prison sentence for any RMA who is found to have been involved with it. The prospect of a jail term should be coupled with automatic and permanent cancellations of the registration of any RMA involved with it. I personally believe that the only way to put a stop to Rent-a-MARN activities will be via legislation so draconian that it threatens to interfere with the liberty of anyone crossing the line as well as with his/her livelihood.

 

I think that if DIAC audit the Register of Agents properly, their advice to the Minister for Immigration is likely to be the same as my own. Rent-a-MARN activities MUST be stopped before they can do any more members of the lay public any more harm than they already have. Ferocity in new legislation would ensure it.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest graandjac]

In defence of four courners, we used them and although expensive there service was 100% perfect in every way, thanks to Corrin

[Guest polo]

Hiya Gill

 

No, Matt Garvey hasn't charged us for any of his help and in their defence Four Corners treated us fine up until their ceasement (which was a stomach churner at the time) and their total charges were at least explained to us at our very first meeing with them and we knew exactly how much we would be paying out.

 

Polo

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Polo

 

From everything I've heard, there is no evidence that the Four Corners staff did not do a good job. (When Visa Connection collapsed last October it was chaotic because applications which should have been lodged months earlier had not been lodged, elementary errors had been made such as not sending DIAC the right information or not calculating the person's points correctly and some of the applicants for skilled visas were about to turn 45. The 4C closure has been nothing like that.)

 

The aggro with 4C is that under the MARA Code of Conduct, Matt Garvey had a duty to contact all the clients and to ask them what they wanted him to do with their files. He was holding himself out as a Director of 4C (and he might well have been a shadow director) so this responsibility rested with him. That was not done because the owner of 4C had transferred everything to Migration Bureau and had left it to them to contact the clients out of the blue.

 

MB then made everything worse by trying to hold the clients to ransom over their files. That is unconscionable conduct which is a serious matter in Australian law but MB are a New Zealand owned company, it seems. I've no idea what the consumer protection arrangements in NZ might be.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest polo]

Gill

 

It pretty much stinks, that us, and probably a lot more people out there have paid to MB a basic £95 (or such like) to have a standard letter or two sent out from the MB and then another postal charge which varied from free to £80 added on to receive our own documents back. You are a lot more clued up than us but the more we read about the goings on, the more sickened we become. T

 

Polo

[Guest stufi1997]

Hi

That is dreadful how can they charge that much!!!!. I have decided to carry on my application myself i have requested my file to be returned but am still waiting. I then recieved an email on Friday with their postage charges

normal post free

for them to take a copy and then post normally £25

courier £55

courier and for them to take a copy £80

 

seems they are going to get money either way.

 

I've also been in touch with immigration seems easy to continue from hear withiut an agent and they are really helpful

 

Tracy

If you think that's bad wait til you get their bills...I strongly objected to their fees for a phone call they made to me to "explain their fees" then charged me per minute for the priveledge at £37 per minute, and then £25.50 per minute to scan documents.....don't know what they were scanning mind you since I never sent them anything......it still makes me furious

good luck Fiona

[Gollywobbler]

Gill

 

It pretty much stinks, that us, and probably a lot more people out there have paid to MB a basic £95 (or such like) to have a standard letter or two sent out from the MB and then another postal charge which varied from free to £80 added on to receive our own documents back. You are a lot more clued up than us but the more we read about the goings on, the more sickened we become. T

 

Polo

 

Hi Polo

 

I can understand only too well how you and others feel about MB's shenanigans.

 

According to the user known as johnnyt on the British Expats thread, MB's staff have absolutely no pride in their work. Please see the last couple of pages of the thread:

 

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610657

 

Do they keep their own active files in a similar mess, one wonders?

 

I shudder on behalf of the people who have agreed to let MB act for them from now on. The wise bunnies are the ones who have said "NO" to that invitation.

 

Anybody in the future who thinks of using MB will think twice after reading the threads on here, on Poms in Oz and on British Expats, though.

 

I also think that every client who has been held to ransom should make a formal complaint to the MARA so that they will be forced to investigate the matter.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill