parent visa

[tracy holland 1]

Hi can anyone help me please my mum and dad are thinking of applying for a aged parent visa. I was wondering once they have applied and hopefully issued with a bridging visa would they be able to apply for a pensioners card here. Mum takes quite a few tablets and is working out expensive when she is here. Someone told us to ask about a pensioners card as they will get medication cheaper is this right.

 

Tracy

[cliffy]

From Centrelink site:

" In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or holders of permanent visas. In addition, most social security payments and concession cards, except Family Tax Benefit and Child Care Benefit, have a two year newly arrived resident's waiting period. There are some exemptions, e.g. refugee and humanitarian visa holders. Some pension payments have their own 'qualifying residence' requirements with some exceptions. Also, some services are only available when receiving a payment from Centrelink."

 

They are the ones that issue the Low Income or Pension Health Care Card. It appears to depend on the Visa and the time they have lived here. If you contact Centrelink, I am sure they will be able to tell you considering the specific circumstances of the Visa.

[tracy holland 1]

From Centrelink site:

" In general, social security payments from Centrelink are only available to people who reside in Australia and are either Australian citizens or holders of permanent visas. In addition, most social security payments and concession cards, except Family Tax Benefit and Child Care Benefit, have a two year newly arrived resident's waiting period. There are some exemptions, e.g. refugee and humanitarian visa holders. Some pension payments have their own 'qualifying residence' requirements with some exceptions. Also, some services are only available when receiving a payment from Centrelink."

 

They are the ones that issue the Low Income or Pension Health Care Card. It appears to depend on the Visa and the time they have lived here. If you contact Centrelink, I am sure they will be able to tell you considering the specific circumstances of the Visa.

 

Thanks for that I will get in touch with them.

Tracy

[Guest Guest5035]

my oldies lived here for 3 years, mum hated it old fella loved it, back then the rate to the $$ was .50 so they lived like kings, now i'm not sure its a good idea, along with the tax on pensions from uk, alot to look into.

 

stevo

[Gollywobbler]

Hi can anyone help me please my mum and dad are thinking of applying for a aged parent visa. I was wondering once they have applied and hopefully issued with a bridging visa would they be able to apply for a pensioners card here. Mum takes quite a few tablets and is working out expensive when she is here. Someone told us to ask about a pensioners card as they will get medication cheaper is this right.

 

Tracy

 

Hello Tracy

 

The good news is that if your parents apply for the subclass 804 Aged Parents visa ("the cheap Parents visa") they should be able to get Seniors Cards once their application for the APV has been lodged and their Bridging Visas have been confirmed. Seniors Card gives discounts on things like public transport, some shops, some restaurants etc. The exact details vary from State to State but the people who run Seniors Card SA reckon that the SA one is the most generous. The details are here:

 

http://www.seniorscard.com.au/

 

In theory Seniors Card is only available to people who have Permanent Residency in Australia but I am told that in practice, the Seniors Card people in most States (including SA) consider the facts, not the visa details. Somebody on a Bridging Visa after applying for an APV 804 is not a Permanent Resident but they do intend to live in Australia for the rest of their lives. That fact seems to be enough to satisfy the people who administer Seniors Card in most States.

 

The bad news is that you are thinking of a different concession card. You are thinking of the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, which is administered by Centrelink as the previous poster has said. The details are below:

 

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/conc_cards_cshc.htm

 

Eligibility for the CSH Card does not arise until the applicant has been a Permanent Resident of Australia for at least two years and the holders of Bridging Visas are not eligible for them, unfortunately.

 

In two or three of the posts I have made on the Cheap Parent Visas thread, I've agonised about whether the so-called "cheap Parent visa" really is "cheap." Certainly, one doesn't have to pay the large capital sums involved with a Contributory Parent Visa or a Contributory Aged Parent visa but I am not particularly persuaded that the APV 804 is necessarily "cheap." I suspect that the Parent probably ends up spending the same amount of monyey as they would for a CPV but they spend it out of income spanning several years rather than out of capital in one hit.

 

To do the sums properly, one would need to instruct Alan Collett of Go Matilda to wear his Chartered Accountant hat as well as his Registered Migration Agent hat and one would need to ask Alan to produce a comparitive spreadsheet, I guess, with the CPV costs on one side and the APV costs on the other. One would also need to ask Alan Collett about the tax and pensions status of the Parent, I reckon. EG: Somebody on a Bridging Visa has not necessarily "immigrated to" Australia. Therefore is this person liable for Income Tax in Australia as if s/he were a Permanent Resident of Australia? Also, if someone has not "immigrated to" Australia, can one argue that this person has not "emigrated from" the UK? If they are not deemed to have left the UK for UK tax purposes, can one argue that their entitlement to the British State Pension should not be frozen?

http://www.gomatilda.com/contact.cfm#ourpeople

 

Personally, I am convinced that anyone who wants to work it all out properly needs to instruct Alan to work it out for them. Otherwise it is going to be a case of by guess, by God and hope for the best, frankly.

 

When I was busy helping my friend Mary and her Parents (which spawned the idea of starting the Cheap Parent Visas thread on here rather than anywhere else because Mary's father had been talking to DIAC in Adelaide) Mary's father and I didn't discuss the tax and pensions side of things. I said that I thought he would need to ask Alan Collett about those elements but I don't know whether he did so. The British State Pensions question is probably the same for all British Parents but how to treat them for income tax purposes probably varies from one to the next.

 

I did look into the Medicare Question closely with APVs. Technically, somebody who is in Oz on a Bridging Visa whilst s/he waits for an Aged Parent Visa is NOT entitled to Medicare. There is somethng in the relevant legislation about this, described in Form 1024i:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

 

I made very specific enquiries about this. First, I asked the Australian High Commission in London to find out about it - which they very kindly did. However they did the same as I did by myself - they and I simply both asked Medicare! Medicare said that under their own Policy, they treat a British APV applicant as if s/he were a British Visitor to Australia. Therefore the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Australia and the UK will apply. This means that the parent will be entitled to the Visitor level of Medicare for as long as s/he is on a Bridging Visa:

 

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/visitors/index.jsp

 

The Visitor level of Medicare covers all and any treatment that a doctor in Australia deems to be *necessary.* The operative word is "necessary" and this is important because it will depend on what the individual doctor thinks. I have never known a doctor to say that dealing with somebody's blood pressure is not *necessary.* However I think the same doctor might take a different view of the patient's bunions. Is it really *necessary* to treat those immediately or can that wait until the British Visitor to Australia has returned to the UK? The bunions problem is likely to affect the patient's mobility and well-being, after all? I think it would depend 100% on the attitude taken by the individual doctor.

 

However, if a doctor in Australia says that the treatment is *necessary* then any drugs required for the problem are also *necessary.* Therefore the drugs will be available at the same rate that you or your OH would pay under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. I think that the current rate for drugs on the PBS is about $34 per drug per prescription. So a scrip for a 3 month supply of Drug A will cost the same as a scrip for one month's supply of Drug A. According to the Australian Government, the PBS price for drugs is heavily subsidised by the Federal Government, via the Australian tax-payer. (The truth of that is that the price of some drugs is indeed heavily subsidised by the PBS but with others, it would be cheaper to pay the full retail price for the drug than to pay the PBS price for it - the doctors and pharmacists all know this and advise the patient accordingly.)

 

The price of drugs in Australia is very expensive to anyone who is used to the NHS in the UK - drugs cost about twice as much in Australia as in the UK for someone under 65. The price is even more of a shock to a British parent who has been getting free drugs from the NHS scheme. According to the Australian Government, most people who need drugs only need them for a short while - eg antibiotics to deal with an infection. If the person needs drugs for a period that spans more than one calendar year then s/he may be entitled to take advantage of the PBS Safety Net scheme during each of the calendar years.

 

The PBS Safety Net scheme is very complicated, imho. God knows whether it is really cost effective to muck around with such a complicated scheme, but still... The gist is that if the patient spends around $1200 on drugs between, say, 1st Jan and Ist September then the Safety Net kicks in and s/he will only have to pay about $6 per drug per scrip for the rest of that calendar year. On 1st Jan the following year, the whole thing reverts to Square One and the patient reverts to paying the full PBS rate for the drug until the ceiling of $1200 or so has been reached during Year Two. In theory, either the patient can afford all this OR the patient will be entitled to one of the Health Care concession cards from Centrelink. Visitors are not expected to visit Australia for more than a year at a time and there are no special provisions covering APV applicants sitting in Oz on Bridging Visas.

 

Mary's father and I concluded that the Visitor level of Medicare would not be enough when they were facing being on a Bridging Visa for several years. He and I concluded that the only realistic option would be for him to buy top-of-the-range private medical insurance for himself and his wife as well.

 

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/

 

Please Be Careful! The link above is to the Australian Government website. There is also a private health insurance company called www.privatehealth.com.au or something similar. The Government website is impartial. The insurance company wants you to buy their product, so please be careful not to confuse the two websites.

 

Private medical insurance has become very expensive in Australia for anyone who is not an Australian Citizen or Permanent Resident. Nonetheless, it might be worth the cost because the Parent is going to be on a Bridging Visa for a minimum of 8 years and it has been known for APV applicants to be looking at waiting for anything up to 16 years. Don't count on the idea of 8 years because what happens with APVs will depend on what happens with CPVs. At the end of the day, the availability comes down to Demand, Supply and Money.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

my oldies lived here for 3 years, mum hated it old fella loved it, back then the rate to the $$ was .50 so they lived like kings, now i'm not sure its a good idea, along with the tax on pensions from uk, alot to look into.

 

stevo

 

Hi Stevo

 

I agree with you. I think that for British parents, the exchange rate is a huge problem but I think there have been other problems as well in recent years. I know one couple who were all set to apply for CPVs but the idea went horribly pear shaped because they had a lot of shares in Northern Rock, which was a Building Society-cum-Bank as far as I know. I think NR had a Banking Licence but I am not sure. Anyhow, Plan A was to sell the NR shares in order to buy CPVs. NR ended up being nationalised or something and the non-toxic part has just been sold to Virgin for.... £747 million. (Virgin Atlantic's phone number is 0800 747747. Therefore I suspect that £747 mio is not the true market price, for a start. I suspect that it has more to do with the branding of Virgin's products than with anything else.)

 

I don't know whether the value of the couple's shares in Northern Rock has begun to increase. They decided to can their plans for Parent migration because the other problem is that the value of their house in the UK has been failing as well. There are only two groups of people in the UK who can count themselves lucky - the Filthy Wealthy and the people on State Benefits. Anyone in between is the Squeezed Middle and George Osborne can put a python to shame, frankly.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Guest5035]

There are only two groups of people in the UK who can count themselves lucky - the Filthy Wealhy and the people on State Benefits. Anyone in between is the Squeezed Middle and George Osborne can put a python to shame, frankly.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

the same is starting to happen here..

 

stevo

[tracy holland 1]

Hello Tracy

 

The good news is that if your parents apply for the subclass 804 Aged Parents visa ("the cheap Parents visa") they should be able to get Seniors Cards once their application for the APV has been lodged and their Bridging Visas have been confirmed. Seniors Card gives discounts on things like public transport, some shops, some restaurants etc. The exact details vary from State to State but the people who run Seniors Card SA reckon that the SA one is the most generous. The details are here:

 

http://www.seniorscard.com.au/

 

In theory Seniors Card is only available to people who have Permanent Residency in Australia but I am told that in practice, the Seniors Card people in most States (including SA) consider the facts, not the visa details. Somebody on a Bridging Visa after applying for an APV 804 is not a Permanent Resident but they do intend to live in Australia for the rest of their lives. That fact seems to be enough to satisfy the people who administer Seniors Card in most States.

 

The bad news is that you are thinking of a different concession card. You are thinking of the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, which is administered by Centrelink as the previous poster has said. The details are below:

 

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/conc_cards_cshc.htm

 

Eligibility for the CSH Card does not arise until the applicant has been a Permanent Resident of Australia for at least two years and the holders of Bridging Visas are not eligible for them, unfortunately.

 

In two or three of the posts I have made on the Cheap Parent Visas thread, I've agonised about whether the so-called "cheap Parent visa" really is "cheap." Certainly, one doesn't have to pay the large capital sums involved with a Contributory Parent Visa or a Contributory Aged Parent visa but I am not particularly persuaded that the APV 804 is necessarily "cheap." I suspect that the Parent probably ends up spending the same amount of monyey as they would for a CPV but they spend it out of income spanning several years rather than out of capital in one hit.

 

To do the sums properly, one would need to instruct Alan Collett of Go Matilda to wear his Chartered Accountant hat as well as his Registered Migration Agent hat and one would need to ask Alan to produce a comparitive spreadsheet, I guess, with the CPV costs on one side and the APV costs on the other. One would also need to ask Alan Collett about the tax and pensions status of the Parent, I reckon. EG: Somebody on a Bridging Visa has not necessarily "immigrated to" Australia. Therefore is this person liable for Income Tax in Australia as if s/he were a Permanent Resident of Australia? Also, if someone has not "immigrated to" Australia, can one argue that this person has not "emigrated from" the UK? If they are not deemed to have left the UK for UK tax purposes, can one argue that their entitlement to the British State Pension should not be frozen?

http://www.gomatilda.com/contact.cfm#ourpeople

 

Personally, I am convinced that anyone who wants to work it all out properly needs to instruct Alan to work it out for them. Otherwise it is going to be a case of by guess, by God and hope for the best, frankly.

 

When I was busy helping my friend Mary and her Parents (which spawned the idea of starting the Cheap Parent Visas thread on here rather than anywhere else because Mary's father had been talking to DIAC in Adelaide) Mary's father and I didn't discuss the tax and pensions side of things. I said that I thought he would need to ask Alan Collett about those elements but I don't know whether he did so. The British State Pensions question is probably the same for all British Parents but how to treat them for income tax purposes probably varies from one to the next.

 

I did look into the Medicare Question closely with APVs. Technically, somebody who is in Oz on a Bridging Visa whilst s/he waits for an Aged Parent Visa is NOT entitled to Medicare. There is somethng in the relevant legislation about this, described in Form 1024i:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

 

I made very specific enquiries about this. First, I asked the Australian High Commission in London to find out about it - which they very kindly did. However they did the same as I did by myself - they and I simply both asked Medicare! Medicare said that under their own Policy, they treat a British APV applicant as if s/he were a British Visitor to Australia. Therefore the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Australia and the UK will apply. This means that the parent will be entitled to the Visitor level of Medicare for as long as s/he is on a Bridging Visa:

 

http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/migrants/visitors/index.jsp

 

The Visitor level of Medicare covers all and any treatment that a doctor in Australia deems to be *necessary.* The operative word is "necessary" and this is important because it will depend on what the individual doctor thinks. I have never known a doctor to say that dealing with somebody's blood pressure is not *necessary.* However I think the same doctor might take a different view of the patient's bunions. Is it really *necessary* to treat those immediately or can that wait until the British Visitor to Australia has returned to the UK? The bunions problem is likely to affect the patient's mobility and well-being, after all? I think it would depend 100% on the attitude taken by the individual doctor.

 

However, if a doctor in Australia says that the treatment is *necessary* then any drugs required for the problem are also *necessary.* Therefore the drugs will be available at the same rate that you or your OH would pay under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. I think that the current rate for drugs on the PBS is about $34 per drug per prescription. So a scrip for a 3 month supply of Drug A will cost the same as a scrip for one month's supply of Drug A. According to the Australian Government, the PBS price for drugs is heavily subsidised by the Federal Government, via the Australian tax-payer. (The truth of that is that the price of some drugs is indeed heavily subsidised by the PBS but with others, it would be cheaper to pay the full retail price for the drug than to pay the PBS price for it - the doctors and pharmacists all know this and advise the patient accordingly.)

 

The price of drugs in Australia is very expensive to anyone who is used to the NHS in the UK - drugs cost about twice as much in Australia as in the UK for someone under 65. The price is even more of a shock to a British parent who has been getting free drugs from the NHS scheme. According to the Australian Government, most people who need drugs only need them for a short while - eg antibiotics to deal with an infection. If the person needs drugs for a period that spans more than one calendar year then s/he may be entitled to take advantage of the PBS Safety Net scheme during each of the calendar years.

 

The PBS Safety Net scheme is very complicated, imho. God knows whether it is really cost effective to muck around with such a complicated scheme, but still... The gist is that if the patient spends around $1200 on drugs between, say, 1st Jan and Ist September then the Safety Net kicks in and s/he will only have to pay about $6 per drug per scrip for the rest of that calendar year. On 1st Jan the following year, the whole thing reverts to Square One and the patient reverts to paying the full PBS rate for the drug until the ceiling of $1200 or so has been reached during Year Two. In theory, either the patient can afford all this OR the patient will be entitled to one of the Health Care concession cards from Centrelink. Visitors are not expected to visit Australia for more than a year at a time and there are no special provisions covering APV applicants sitting in Oz on Bridging Visas.

 

Mary's father and I concluded that the Visitor level of Medicare would not be enough when they were facing being on a Bridging Visa for several years. He and I concluded that the only realistic option would be for him to buy top-of-the-range private medical insurance for himself and his wife as well.

 

http://www.privatehealth.gov.au/

 

Please Be Careful! The link above is to the Australian Government website. There is also a private health insurance company called www.privatehealth.com.au or something similar. The Government website is impartial. The insurance company wants you to buy their product, so please be careful not to confuse the two websites.

 

Private medical insurance has become very expensive in Australia for anyone who is not an Australian Citizen or Permanent Resident. Nonetheless, it might be worth the cost because the Parent is going to be on a Bridging Visa for a minimum of 8 years and it has been known for APV applicants to be looking at waiting for anything up to 16 years. Don't count on the idea of 8 years because what happens with APVs will depend on what happens with CPVs. At the end of the day, the availability comes down to Demand, Supply and Money.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

This information is brilliant thankyou gives me lots to look at!!!!

[Gollywobbler]

Hi again, Tracy

 

I couldn't say too much in my reply to you yesterday because the forum software only allows about 10,000 characters in a post.

 

FWIW, my personal view is that a British Parent should consider whether or not it would be possible to rake together the price of a CPV and that they should try to do a cost/benefit analysis between a CPV143 or a CAPV864 and an APV804. Mary's father made a couple of visits to DIAC in Adelaide during 2008/2009 when he was visiting Australia for 6 months. DIAC told him that if he didn't want to pay for 2 CPVs then he should consider the APV804 visa instead. Not unreasonably, he asked why anyone would bother with a CPV if there is a substantially cheaper option available? The DIAC lady said she thought that some Parents find CPVs more attractive because the visa process is completed quickly and blah blah. Personally, I think it is more complicated than that.

 

You asked about the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, even though you didn't know its name. That will provide "cheap" drugs in theory but the "saving" is only notional because the Parent has paid a hefty premium for a CPV in the first place. Similarly, a CPV holder gets full Medicare from Day One but s/he has already paid for that via the cost of the CPV. We've found with my own mother (who is now 91 and she has had a CPV143 since 2006) that Medicare in Perth are so good that she really wouldn't benefit from private medical insurance on top. However, we've already paid as much as private medical insurance would cost because we bought a CPV143.

 

I'm not sure what happens about income tax. Mum is a Permanent Resident so she has to pay income tax in Australia. Somebody who is only a Temporary Resident in Oz is entitled to claim the full amount of the Personal Allowance both in the UK and in Oz but I don't know how the holder of a Bridging Visa is treated for income tax purposes in Oz. One would need to ask Alan Collett about that, I believe.

 

With old folks homes (god forbid) it doesn't matter about the patient's visa status. Anybody who needs Aged Care is only expected to pay as much as s/he can afford and the Government pays any shortfall. This is equally true for both Temporary and Permanent Residents but again, I think one would need to ask Alan Collett what happens if the person has a Bridging Visa?

 

Theoretically, the holder of a Bridging Visa is not permitted to work in Australia. However, under Policy DIAC are usually willing to grant Permission to Work to any APV applicant who wants to work in Australia. DIAC recognise that keeping an elderly person waiting for several years for a visa is not the Australian Government's finest moment of glory; a lot of APV applicants are perfectly fit and they are bored by enforced idleness. Bunnings encourage Seniors to apply for jobs with them in the same way as B&Q do in the UK. Bunnings don't pay a fortune but they do keep the person busy and a bit of extra money is better than nothing.

 

The Australian Age Pension is not payable until somebody has had PR in Oz for 10 years. Even then, the Age Pension only pays the difference between the frozen amount arriving from the UK and whatever the minimum Age Pension is in Australia each year. I think this consideration is about the same for a CPV holder and an APV applicant **at the moment** because the APV applicant only has to wait for about 8 years at present. Two years after the APV804 has been granted, the Parent can go to Centrelink where one or more other Benefits might be payable (eg Special Benefit) which would tide the person over between Year Two and Year 10. A CPV holder cannot claim Special Benefit before the expiry of the 10 year CPV Assurance of Support. I have not investigated this in detail because my mother is now 91 so we just have to wait and see what happens, I reckon. It might be worth delving through the Centrelink website or go and ask someone at Centrelink - they are usually sympathetic and helpful, I am told.

 

AAnother factor is that the Parent is not going to get any younger and s/he might become disabled. Nobody can claim a Disability Support Pension in Oz until they have had PR for 10 years first UNLESS the disabilty arose after s/he first obtained PR in Oz. My mother is in a wheelchair but we knew she would not be entitled to a Disability Support Pension. What we didn't think about was whether my sister would be able to claim the Carer Allowance for looking after Mum? Elaine took Mum with her when she went to sort out the CSH Card for Mum. The Centrelink lady asked whether Elaine was claiming a Carer Allowance? No - we hadn't realised that Elaine might be entitled to do so. Elaine only gets the minimum Carer amount each week because she also has a part time job but she gets about $25 a week, she told me.

 

Then Elaine's tax accountant told us about something that sounds like a scam to Elaine and I but apparently it does work..... When someone gets a CPV 143, a Bond of either $10,000 or $14,000 must also be paid. It is repaid in full after 10 years as long as there haven't been any recoverable claims on Centrelink Benefits during that time. The Assurer receives interest on the capital deposited twice a year. According to the tax accountant, there is no reason why the Parent can't claim Special Benefit during Years Three to Ten. The Parent stops claiming as soon as Centrelink have paid out the full $10K or $14K. However the capital remains in the Bond Account for the full 10 years - Centrelink cannot touch that money until the 10 years is up. So the Assurer continues to get the interest and at the end of the 10 years, the money in the Bond Account is just given to Centrelink. The Parent has had full use of the money several years before...

 

Well - we didn't know that and the inventiveness of accountants never ceases to amaze me but we haven't done anything about it ourselves. It sounds as if lots of other CPV holders may have done so, however.

 

FINALLY - depending on what the figures look like on the back of the proverbial fag packet, what about the possibility that the Child in Australia borrows the money in order to pay for a CPV?

 

These are just the issues that I have become aware of. It is not necessarily an exhaustive list. You can see why I think it is too complicated for a mere mortal like me to try to tackle the sums, though!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

PS: @Alan Collett (who I know reads this forum.) Alan, you might be cringeing at the amount that I say you would be able to work out. However, you do have much a better chance of working it out accurately than I or the next ordinary mortal might have, I believe. Also, there might be other considerations that I haven't thought about because they wouldn't apply to us but they might apply to somebody else. I'm not "merely" taking your name in vain, my friend.

[tracy holland 1]

Hi again, Tracy

 

I couldn't say too much in my reply to you yesterday because the forum software only allows about 10,000 characters in a post.

 

FWIW, my personal view is that a British Parent should consider whether or not it would be possible to rake together the price of a CPV and that they should try to do a cost/benefit analysis between a CPV143 or a CAPV864 and an APV804. Mary's father made a couple of visits to DIAC in Adelaide during 2008/2009 when he was visiting Australia for 6 months. DIAC told him that if he didn't want to pay for 2 CPVs then he should consider the APV804 visa instead. Not unreasonably, he asked why anyone would bother with a CPV if there is a substantially cheaper option available? The DIAC lady said she thought that some Parents find CPVs more attractive because the visa process is completed quickly and blah blah. Personally, I think it is more complicated than that.

 

You asked about the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card, even though you didn't know its name. That will provide "cheap" drugs in theory but the "saving" is only notional because the Parent has paid a hefty premium for a CPV in the first place. Similarly, a CPV holder gets full Medicare from Day One but s/he has already paid for that via the cost of the CPV. We've found with my own mother (who is now 91 and she has had a CPV143 since 2006) that Medicare in Perth are so good that she really wouldn't benefit from private medical insurance on top. However, we've already paid as much as private medical insurance would cost because we bought a CPV143.

 

I'm not sure what happens about income tax. Mum is a Permanent Resident so she has to pay income tax in Australia. Somebody who is only a Temporary Resident in Oz is entitled to claim the full amount of the Personal Allowance both in the UK and in Oz but I don't know how the holder of a Bridging Visa is treated for income tax purposes in Oz. One would need to ask Alan Collett about that, I believe.

 

With old folks homes (god forbid) it doesn't matter about the patient's visa status. Anybody who needs Aged Care is only expected to pay as much as s/he can afford and the Government pays any shortfall. This is equally true for both Temporary and Permanent Residents but again, I think one would need to ask Alan Collett what happens if the person has a Bridging Visa?

 

Theoretically, the holder of a Bridging Visa is not permitted to work in Australia. However, under Policy DIAC are usually willing to grant Permission to Work to any APV applicant who wants to work in Australia. DIAC recognise that keeping an elderly person waiting for several years for a visa is not the Australian Government's finest moment of glory; a lot of APV applicants are perfectly fit and they are bored by enforced idleness. Bunnings encourage Seniors to apply for jobs with them in the same way as B&Q do in the UK. Bunnings don't pay a fortune but they do keep the person busy and a bit of extra money is better than nothing.

 

The Australian Age Pension is not payable until somebody has had PR in Oz for 10 years. Even then, the Age Pension only pays the difference between the frozen amount arriving from the UK and whatever the minimum Age Pension is in Australia each year. I think this consideration is about the same for a CPV holder and an APV applicant **at the moment** because the APV applicant only has to wait for about 8 years at present. Two years after the APV804 has been granted, the Parent can go to Centrelink where one or more other Benefits might be payable (eg Special Benefit) which would tide the person over between Year Two and Year 10. A CPV holder cannot claim Special Benefit before the expiry of the 10 year CPV Assurance of Support. I have not investigated this in detail because my mother is now 91 so we just have to wait and see what happens, I reckon. It might be worth delving through the Centrelink website or go and ask someone at Centrelink - they are usually sympathetic and helpful, I am told.

 

AAnother factor is that the Parent is not going to get any younger and s/he might become disabled. Nobody can claim a Disability Support Pension in Oz until they have had PR for 10 years first UNLESS the disabilty arose after s/he first obtained PR in Oz. My mother is in a wheelchair but we knew she would not be entitled to a Disability Support Pension. What we didn't think about was whether my sister would be able to claim the Carer Allowance for looking after Mum? Elaine took Mum with her when she went to sort out the CSH Card for Mum. The Centrelink lady asked whether Elaine was claiming a Carer Allowance? No - we hadn't realised that Elaine might be entitled to do so. Elaine only gets the minimum Carer amount each week because she also has a part time job but she gets about $25 a week, she told me.

 

Then Elaine's tax accountant told us about something that sounds like a scam to Elaine and I but apparently it does work..... When someone gets a CPV 143, a Bond of either $10,000 or $14,000 must also be paid. It is repaid in full after 10 years as long as there haven't been any recoverable claims on Centrelink Benefits during that time. The Assurer receives interest on the capital deposited twice a year. According to the tax accountant, there is no reason why the Parent can't claim Special Benefit during Years Three to Ten. The Parent stops claiming as soon as Centrelink have paid out the full $10K or $14K. However the capital remains in the Bond Account for the full 10 years - Centrelink cannot touch that money until the 10 years is up. So the Assurer continues to get the interest and at the end of the 10 years, the money in the Bond Account is just given to Centrelink. The Parent has had full use of the money several years before...

 

Well - we didn't know that and the inventiveness of accountants never ceases to amaze me but we haven't done anything about it ourselves. It sounds as if lots of other CPV holders may have done so, however.

 

FINALLY - depending on what the figures look like on the back of the proverbial fag packet, what about the possibility that the Child in Australia borrows the money in order to pay for a CPV?

 

These are just the issues that I have become aware of. It is not necessarily an exhaustive list. You can see why I think it is too complicated for a mere mortal like me to try to tackle the sums, though!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

 

PS: @Alan Collett (who I know reads this forum.) Alan, you might be cringeing at the amount that I say you would be able to work out. However, you do have much a better chance of working it out accurately than I or the next ordinary mortal might have, I believe. Also, there might be other considerations that I haven't thought about because they wouldn't apply to us but they might apply to somebody else. I'm not "merely" taking your name in vain, my friend.

Gill

Once again a big thankyou what you have provided is really helpful and opens lots of avenues for me to check out!! Mum and dad have lots to think about to as mentioned exchange rate is dreadful at the moment to. They go back to UK in January are then going to come back in April and decide then what to do.

 

Many thanks

Tracy

[Hayshake]

As somebody who holds permanent residency in Australia via a CPV 143 we would confirm that at present Australia is too expensive to consider moving permanently to. We are back living in the UK where we know that the pound we get from our pension is worth a £, whereas when exchange rates come into the equation, receiving pensions and frozen government pensionsfrom the UK, is a bit of a lottery. We paid our fees expecting to live in Australia, but now we have doubts about moving back permanently. You could say that this was an expensive exercise, but the fact that we could help our son through a painful divorce made it all worthwhile. I would say to any parent considering the move to do their sums carefully, it is very tough when your family move to the other side of the world, but moving out and being poor is no kind of life!!

[tracy holland 1]

Thanks for that reply good to hear the side of someone who has been through this. Great to have the down side of things in front of you to consider as these things are things that have been worrying my parents.