Anyone have a male labrador or labradoodle?

**lilopilo** · 19-01-2012, 08:28 AM

Hi, just wondered if anyone close to Aberfoyle Park has a male labrador or labradoodle that is not de-sexed? We have a female labradoodle due in season in about 4 or 5 months and we would love her to have a litter of puppies. Unfortunately up to now everyone we have met with a male have had them de-sexed already,

Hope someone can help,
thanks!!

Kathy

**snifter** · 19-01-2012, 10:41 AM

Good on them for having their dogs done. Sensible approach to dog ownership I reckon and as it usually gets you cheaper registration fees, all the better for a) preventing indiscriminate/accidental breeding, b) the wallet and c) dogs health in the long term potentially.

Just that with so many dogs and pups in rescues these days, I don't get breeding like this at all. Just because s/he is entire doesn't mean s/he's a good conformation/type to breed from. I'd be wary about just using any male dog because it happens to be nearby as again, I'd be looking for a well conformed dog with no health issues, decent hip scores (possibly) and so on. Have you contacted reputable breeders of this cross to see if they have suggestions? Decent types of this x breed that might be worth considering although you may have to pay stud fees. Although I do hear even of some (UK) breeders won't consider letting their dog to stud on a bitch that is from a private home or not up to scratch in terms of conformation and so on. They are just trying to be more careful these days what with the masses of dogs and pups in rescues and being PTS. And also ensuring they do their utmost to keep a breed in decent health (progressing away from the line breeding and some traits etc which can only be a good thing for the dogs in the long run).

I foster for rescues in the UK and know only too well the outcome for many homebred litters of these fashionable breeds and cross breeds. Even registered breeders dogs end up in rescues but often these are tracked down and the breeder or someone who knows them tries to rehome them or the owners are obliged to return the dog to the breeder if they can no longer continue to keep it. Sure, some not so reputable breeders out there, but it is a case of sifting through and doing homework before buying.

**Rick N Vik** · 19-01-2012, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by snifter

Good on them for having their dogs done. Sensible approach to dog ownership I reckon and as it usually gets you cheaper registration fees, all the better for a) preventing indiscriminate/accidental breeding, b) the wallet and c) dogs health in the long term potentially.

Just that with so many dogs and pups in rescues these days, I don't get breeding like this at all. Just because s/he is entire doesn't mean s/he's a good conformation/type to breed from. I'd be wary about just using any male dog because it happens to be nearby as again, I'd be looking for a well conformed dog with no health issues, decent hip scores (possibly) and so on. Have you contacted reputable breeders of this cross to see if they have suggestions? Decent types of this x breed that might be worth considering although you may have to pay stud fees. Although I do hear even of some (UK) breeders won't consider letting their dog to stud on a bitch that is from a private home or not up to scratch in terms of conformation and so on. They are just trying to be more careful these days what with the masses of dogs and pups in rescues and being PTS. And also ensuring they do their utmost to keep a breed in decent health (progressing away from the line breeding and some traits etc which can only be a good thing for the dogs in the long run).

I foster for rescues in the UK and know only too well the outcome for many homebred litters of these fashionable breeds and cross breeds. Even registered breeders dogs end up in rescues but often these are tracked down and the breeder or someone who knows them tries to rehome them or the owners are obliged to return the dog to the breeder if they can no longer continue to keep it. Sure, some not so reputable breeders out there, but it is a case of sifting through and doing homework before buying.

I could not agree more. The amount of people we have contacting us just because their bitch is in season and they need a dog to service her regardless of what it is like. All our males are fully health tested and far exceed the requirements laid down by the UK Kennel Club so we can use them confidently but we still turn away about 95% of the people that contact us just purley because they have not done any research at all.

**Diane** · 19-01-2012, 11:22 AM

Whenever I hear about Labradoodles I always think of the number of puppies that must end up as problem dogs because through not fault of their own, they're born with the 'wrong' characteristics: i.e. the (shedding) coat of a labrador and the nature of a poodle, rather than the other way round! Surely in any designer cross, you must only get about 25% success rate, just by the laws of probability!

**katsmajic** · 19-01-2012, 11:30 AM

I'm with you whole heartedly Snifter...i used to show Lhasa Apso's in the UK for approx 15yrs, i had 4 litters in all those years as its not about making a buck or she needs a litter before shes desexed etc....its about the quality and health of the animals produced.
i met alot of either idiots who just farmed their dogs for money or naive fools thinking their dog had to have a litter and the pups would be sooo cute etc....the amount of mongrels here that sell for more than purebreeds is astounding..and the amount of those poor cute pups that then end up at the rspca at 9/10mths old as theyre not so cute when their not trained...
i dont get it tbh, ok i get the out breeding to eliminate the health issues of one breed, but by cross breeding you open those poor pups to 2 lots of genetic malfunctions....these ****tymaltesers are usually snappy little buggers....now described in Australia as one the snappiest and most not suitable around children...and the poor ridgebacks that get crossed with everything that sounds menacing for image/macho idiots...i have a ridgey cross rottie myself as i know that both breeds do compliment one another, both breeds have wonderful temprements, however it was a decision knowing both breeds have hip issues so we make a point of not over running/exercising Safi...
poodles and labs have a hell of alot of cross over disorders...and as a few people i know who own them have health problems from the age of 5+

please think long and hard about why you want to breed your girl...she doesnt need a litter to be a girl after desexing, she isnt a show dog with amazing breed lines...
have you had puppies before, do you know the risks/complications that can occur, can you cover the costs of an emergency c-section in the middle of the night? can you manage 7+ puppies until they are 8+ weeks old and if you dont find them homes what will you do with them? both breeds can have litters upto 10+ pups....

**adelaidenow** · 19-01-2012, 11:59 AM

BUT......pure breds have more issues!

We have one, and love her, but research shows mix breeds have less genetic issues.

**snifter** · 19-01-2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Diane

Whenever I hear about Labradoodles I always think of the number of puppies that must end up as problem dogs because through not fault of their own, they're born with the 'wrong' characteristics: i.e. the (shedding) coat of a labrador and the nature of a poodle, rather than the other way round! Surely in any designer cross, you must only get about 25% success rate, just by the laws of probability!

There is that also Diane. Many Labradoodles I see have short coats but are more poodle like in other ways. Can never tell how a litter is going to turn out.

**snifter** · 19-01-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by adelaidenow

BUT......pure breds have more issues!

We have one, and love her, but research shows mix breeds have less genetic issues.

Well, there is good reason for that (which I won't get in to here) and this is why many countries/breeders now are changing how they breed pure breds and are purposefully breeding out some of/many of the traits that have come to be expected of a breed (ie massively overshot jaws in some breeds or folds of excess skin). There will always be some conditions associated with specific breeds, but given time, over the coming few generations, if bred sensibly some things will be lessened.

The focus was on a breed type/standard, often at all costs, and then of course the fashion aspect which raises a breeds profile and so on, but now the focus is on the health of the animal over its looks. And if that means Shar Pei's are purposefully bred to have less folds of skin so they can actually see and not need operations and treatment for life or GSD not to have such sloping stances and back legs that can barely support them in middle age, this has to be a good thing in my book.

We humans did this to them in the first place. It wasn't a breeds fault they became prone to epilepsy or chronic illnesses due to line breeding and so on. But do this enough times, it becomes almost inherited.

So yes, general random cross breeds, a true mutt so to speak, are usually more robust and healthy, but many planned/intended fashionable cross breeds (we see a lot of toy breed crosses with Westies and they have terrible skin conditions often for example) still have health problems from either breed (ie labradors and their hip scores) they can pass on as they are still being crossed between specific breeds. You breed in the bad with the good after all. And unless the breeder is careful and ensures they only use the best dogs possible for breeding, then those problems will remain and possibly get worse over generations. So for example, if buying a labradoodle puppy I'd want to know what the hip scores were of both parents and that they were within the safe range for their breed, especially if each parent were a pure bred. And then before breeding from one, I'd also want to score their hips to ensure that they were ok and this would lessen the chances of pups having bad hips.

**IrishStew** · 19-01-2012, 02:36 PM

Hi Guys, I am the proud owner of a Newfie, and we are all sorry that he is to old to bring - we have never used him for breeding in spite of several approaches.
I agree with much of what has been said, but I do have concerns that some breeders are more interested in protecting their business than actual breed itself. I am very thankful that my Newfie "Spud" has no problems with heart or hips, but many do because of "careful" breeding.

However to get to my question - I have promised my kids a couple of house dogs when we get to SA (DV). They would love a Westie, but I am not sure what breed of house dogs are best in SA - you guys any thoughts???

IrishStew (OH)

**snifter** · 19-01-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by IrishStew

Hi Guys, I am the proud owner of a Newfie, and we are all sorry that he is to old to bring - we have never used him for breeding in spite of several approaches.
I agree with much of what has been said, but I do have concerns that some breeders are more interested in protecting their business than actual breed itself. I am very thankful that my Newfie "Spud" has no problems with heart or hips, but many do because of "careful" breeding.

However to get to my question - I have promised my kids a couple of house dogs when we get to SA (DV). They would love a Westie, but I am not sure what breed of house dogs are best in SA - you guys any thoughts???

IrishStew (OH)

I'm not a breeder so my posts on the subject are not biased that way. I volunteer and foster for 2 dog rescues here in the UK and see day in and day out how many dogs are dumped/given up and PTS, often because they are bought/bred on a whim and people soon tire of a pup once it is no longer cute or chews the kitchen cupboards. And many one off breeders/accidental litter from a mating end up not being able to sell all the pups and again end up giving them to our rescues to rehome as they can no longer keep them all. Its a crappy state of affairs and one that costs the rescues a small fortune when those pups should be someone else's responsibility.

I did post above about the breeding issues in pure breeds and how (in the UK and some other EU countries at least) they are now changing their breeding handbook and breeding for health over breed ideals (that are often not ideal for the dog). The breed standards are changing to help the dogs health in the long term and future, but it doesn't happen overnight. But dodgy hips in any parent dog are of concern and those dogs should never be used for breeding as it will only pass on to the next generation.

Westies can be great but are known to often suffer skin conditions and their pale skin isn't great in the sun. How old are your kids? Depending on their age and the size of garden and access to dog parks/beaches etc you'll have, I'd consider a more docile type of dog. Cav's are lovely but not everyones cup of tea. They have one of the best reputations with kids and I've only ever known of one person say they had a 'bad one' and then I am dubious as I don't really think they were experienced with dogs at all before getting one. I adore whippets but they are not ideal dogs if you have boisterous or loud kids as they are sensitive and delicate, even if they like to run around. Also, bitches especially tend to do better in pairs and I'd always advise 2 whippets over one. And they don't do well on hard floors as they slip around a lot. Need rugs and carpets or else its splayed legs when they hit the hard floors :|

Also depends if you want a more independent dog or one that is a bit more people orientated. I like Border terriers but again, depending on the age of your children, I'd be wary.

I'd always go check the rescues out also. You often find pups or young dogs in them or an older dog who is known to be good with kids and worth getting to know perhaps. But again, kids ages might make you wary. I've rehomed and fostered without issue as I am careful with what dogs I take in and I've never had problems with the dogs and my son (aged 3). I usually have problems with other things be it house training, chewing or separation anxiety due to their previous homes :|

And often you can't go wrong with a real 100% mutt. No fancy cross breeds between 2 pedigree breeds, but a good old Heinz 57 type. Or a lurcher type dog as they have fab temperaments usually (but again hard floors might be an issue).

I'd wait till you get there, settle in for a bit, see where life takes you and once you know you are defo staying in Adelaide and everyone is happy, go looking round then. Happy to give suggestions again nearer the time if it helps :)