Not sure whether to return

[James]

Hi I have lived in Adelaide for 2.6 years and have a wife and son with me. I just received permanent residency after being on the state sponsored visa. For myself I have never taken to it here and have really made few friends, all those I have are French, Italian, Israeli, not Australian but my son loves it and has flourished at school here (which as he had some issues before arriving is great). I have a job here, not well paid but stable and think at my age 46 it will be a challenge to get another job in UK in my field public sector at the moment. My wife had work for a year but has been unemployed for 6 months now and believes in bad times English qualifications are less readily accepted than Australian ones. She works in admin and has only had interviews from either other English people or foreigners (like ourselves) here. We lived in a nice part of England just South of London in the countryside in a medieval village with family. When I came out here I hated England feeling it had little future, due to poor education, social breakdown, poor economic control, decline of religious values and uncontrolled immigration. I still loved the English countryside, people and history. I think when I came I had a view Australia would be all the good bits of England without the bad bits. Of course that was stupid Australia is another country as foreign as any other. I have found the Australian directness quite a challenge professionally and I think it creates unnecessary conflict. At a personal level I have found it necessary to be far more assertive than I care to be, or I have ended up at the wrong end of any transaction. I do miss the English and European culture, art, architecture, gentility so much it is like a pain in my heart. After more than two years it is no better but worse. I also miss my parents and due to familly sickness have returned three times in the 2.5 years. My parent's health has deterioated so much since I came out and I have great fear if I can get back if they need me. It takes so long to get there and is expensive and needs time off work. Every time I go back I fall in love with England again and all the cultural offers it and Europe have. On a practical level the cost of living here is astronomical here and having just been back I know it is cheaper in Southern England even for food and utilities atleast. Housing is similar I would say. In my experience health care is mixed in both places and luck, Australia is much easier to see a GP but you wait along while for specialists even with insurance which privately you would not in UK. Anyway my heart is in England/Europe but am unsure if this is the moment to go back to that economy. My son loves it here too and will be bitterly dispappointed to leave. If we stay though we find we are getting in debt as my wife can not get a job. Any ideas ? Can your heart change after two years? Should I stay out of fear of unemployment if I go back and for my son? It jsut can make me very miserable here I feel dispaced. I also now believe you can not run from the world's problems, tehy are all here just lesser or different but still here. Australia is a very secular country and a very capitalist country and you have to like that to thrive here I think. It also has remarkably low environmental standards I have found as that is my work. Incidentally I have been in the same work place and gone to the same Chuch for all the time i have been here but made no real Australian friends. I know England is in trouble but trouble but I think it will take a lot to wash away the culture that is in teh English people. sorry for the long post I did not want to write until I felt I had given it a fair shot here

[Chris & Helen]

I feel that only you and your wife can make this decision! We had friends that moved back to the UK after being out here and wished they had stayed in Australia. I hope that you come to decision quickly so that you can settle as a family wherever that may be.

[Riponian]

If nothing else writing it down and asking for advice is a good thing. I generally find that you know what you want to do but are asking for people to either agree with you or offer you help make the other easier to live with.
As you have been back to the UK then you are not really looking through rose tinted glasses and just wishing, you have the facts and with that you can make an informed decision.

We have been here 2years and I lost my Dad last year and I know first hand you can't live your life for your parents. My Dad whole hearted supported our decision even though he had lung cancer.
Aussies are difficult to break into the circle, just takes time and effort. I have just joined the Surf Life Saving Club and most of the club are second or 3rd generation even but we have been going down nearly every fri night with the kids and weekends and showing your face and it helps.

As for the work thing maybe you need a different approach but as with most things it's WHO you know and not WHAT you know...

Good luck with your decision and maybe look into a different church or try a new hobby before you give it up completely.. that feeling of belonging could just be around the corner.
Either way what ever you decide you can't ever regret it you tried and succeeded where many others have failed

HTH

[soo_the_panda]

I miss many of the same things as you - in particular the European history and cultural aspects of Europe (I realise Australia has culture... I mean that culture in particular), the countryside, medieval villages etc. I feel very settled in Adelaide (been here 4 years) and love it here but also miss England and often wonder where I will 'end up' if anywhere. Right now I feel my foreseeable future is in Adelaide, but could easily move back. My partner is Australian - one of us will always miss out on being near our family - we talk about that a lot, but are grateful we talk often with our families on phone and skype and when we do see them, we spend quality time with them, albeit a year apart each time.

Making friends is a looooong process - I only see one person now that I met in my first year in Adelaide but it's the friends I've made in the last 2 years who I am closest too and see as lifelong friends.

I think about this topic a lot, but always conclude wherever I am, my life is what I make of it. Most of the time my lifestyle would be similar, I'd work in the same profession, exercise, go out for dinner, entertain for friends, etc... some friends in the UK will ask me 'so do you just go to the beach everyday?' and I realise how my day to day life is really not too different to in the UK... only that I can enjoy being outdoors more here, enjoy the beach every day and visit wineries! Likewise if I returned to the UK I'd have the bonuses of weekends in Europe and the London lifestyle... only you can know.

[Messua]

Only the three of you can decide what to do. It's no fun being in debt, but it won't disappear when you go back to Blighty, so you won't be avoiding it by returning. You don't say how old you are or the age of your son, but one thing to be sure of before you get on the plane is that he can follow his educational/career choices and, perhaps even more importantly, your employment opportunities. Family is, of course, an important consideration, and if you are genuinely concerned then get some facts from people who know. Living over here these past 12 years, I have found that my family have been less than honest and we have spent money on a trip back, when we should really have improved and repaired our home.
Friendships are valuable no matter where people come from, so value the friends you have made along the way.

[m.jephcott]

My advice would be to think about why you left the UK in the first place and what you would hope to achieve by returning. Think about whether your hopes are realalistic as well as whether their is anything you can do here to improve your life. Have a good talk with your family and do some real reasearch into how much things really cost in the UK compared to here and what you employment oppurtunities are. We have had to change a lot since we came to OZ a year ago, but being ping-pong poms we new we had to. Don't make the mistake of going back only to wish you had tried harder, but don't be hard on yourself if you do go back. If you have given it your best shot and it didn't work out, at least you tried.

[snifter]

There are plus points for you to return. Your family, your missing the countryside, culture and other things. If they can help you out, perhaps you could live with your parents till you are financially stable and able to both find work and have some savings behind you, that would help. Moving back here with debt is a risky as if it is hard to find work and so on, you will be paying off the debt as well as trying to afford to live and it could take you a long long time to get yourself in a decent financial position.

Work wise, the public sector is going through huge cutbacks and more. There really isn't the stability and I know people who have had to take a relocation when their job was no longer an option to keep open. And with that relocation, having had to apply for the new post, they also are on rolling contracts with no idea if they will still have that job at the end of the year. So they are living year by year but it doesn't look good for one of them as her post may well be lost also. They worry as they are in their early 50's and its hard to find a job at that age, as many people can attest.

Education wise, you could probably get your son into a good school but remember if he is really happy and settled, he may well be unhappy about having to go back and start over and depending on his age, especially if senior school age or close to it, it can make waves in terms of a step back in how well they may do, regardless of how good the school is. On the other hand, if he is happy to go then hopefully he'll thrive in a new school.

Its a tough one. Personally I can see more reasons for staying in Aus for the next few years than I can for returning. The UK is struggling atm in many areas and things like fuel bills are so incredibly high these days, heating a house for the winter costs almost double what it did a few years ago. Gas prices are through the roof. Fuel is also insanely high and it costs more and more to keep a car on the road these days. We pay (and this is in a reasonable area in the south west) £45 an hour for labour when our car goes into the garage. That is a huge jump to five years ago when it was closer to £20-25.

The next couple of years are going to be the deal breaker for the UK economy. Recession is predicted, and with half of Europe crumbling in debt it is set to get worse before it gets better IMHO.

Of course, some people return and find work, have a house to come back to (of are in a position to buy/rent with relative ease) and so on. It can be done, but nothing is certain and no one can predict how it will go for you if you return. The SE is extortionately expensive these days, make no mistake. And jobs are hard fought, even casual ones.

You say about the nature of the people in England, yes many are as I think you are meaning, however, many younger people don't have quite that same sense as older generations. Progress globabally has made us a much more instant pop culture disposable nation. Its a different world to me even from when I was 20. Do I like it as much? Some aspects, yes, many no. I don't like the culture of waste we now have, the disposable living and instant fix. I miss that things had a value and lasted years, not just lasted one season or till the next new model came out.

Be aware that for younger people, they have the highest unemployment rate out of anyone here. If you are leaving school/college/uni its a pretty bleak outlook to a decade ago. And that doesn't seem set to change in the near future. The problems with the economy won't be solved in a few years, it'll take a decade to really recover, if not longer. Hundreds of graduates are applying for one job. And there are far less jobs than there were. So its fierce out there.

Throw in the NHS reforms and that isn't once the rock solid instiution it once was. Changes are being made and they will change the face of the NHS for ever more. For the better? Remains to be seen.

I wish I could be more upbeat for you about the UK. Believe me, I think its a wonderful country in many respects and it is beautiful, no denying that. But as for it being an easy place to live these days, I don't think so. Its far from rosy for most people, even if they don't admit it in public, pretty much everyone has had to tighten their belt and its being felt on the High St. Of course, many people are doing ok, able to afford to live and so on, but the reality for many on the middle or lower end of the income scale is definately one of harder times financially and adapting to that. And job security, or even getting a job is not a sure fire thing.

If you really really want to come back, then do so. No point staying if you are all unhappy and don't want to be there. But if you can stick it out a couple more years perhaps consider that and have a plan to return to the UK in 2 years or so. So time to save, plan research. Or just do the other thing, look for jobs in the UK from Aus and apply and if you were to get one, head on back on your own to take it up for a few months (stay with your parents perhaps to keep costs down?) and see how it goes before bringing the rest of the family back. Give yourself some options I always reckon.

[James]

Heh thanks for all the lovely replies. I really apreciate it. I know what my heart wants to do but my head follows a lot of what you have all saidabout the economy. That s what is holding me here really, apart from the prospect of renching my son from his school ( he is 9). he was heart broken when we left England I do not know if I can put him through that once more as he loves it here now. The trouble is i can not reconcile myself to life here an am frightened of being trapped here.becoming as I already am the whingeing pom. In the end if something happens with my parents hat will send me home but I would rather go back without a crises. Since Ihave been here they have already had strokes and heart surgery and my father in law lung cancer. I feel sometimes we are being called home! I think probably I am just too Engaish and yes I know Engalnd has changed but in the villages there is still something abit Miss Marple about it. There you are I wonder how many others feel trapped by the economic situation in thewrong place and worry that if they leave it too long ( I am 46) they will not be able to go back as will be too old to get a job and their children too integrated in the school here. I suppose the moral is to be sure you wan it whne you migrate as going back is not so easy!

[James]

One other quick point yes cost of living is going up everywhere I still think it is higher here, return London by air $700 more than the reverse journey, not least because most things in Australia are duopolies Woolworths and Coles etc, so no true competition and it is too far to go anywhere else to buy things so we are a captive audience. \

The truth is with a huge growing population to 7 billion and more and not enough resources whiich ever country you are in prices will shoot up and we will all have to accept a lower standard of living, moving around may be less easy and changing jobs as the economic crises continues so I guess we had better all try and settle where we are happy as we may not be able to move so easily in the future. I am just frightened of being stuck here not just for two years but much longer. Anyway sorry had my rant

[snifter]

Ah James, please rant away. On the scale of things, it was more a getting your thoughts out there than a rant in my book ;) Its good to talk. So please, make use of this forum and hopefully you'll find some support and more here. Its never easy moving overseas and doubly harder with kids. And I can understand you feeling so torn. Give yourself time to plan, research and so on just like you did to move out to Aus. And even if it takes a couple of years, if its what is best for you all, then hopefully it will work out.