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    1. #1

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      Cheap Parent Visas

      Hi All

      Sorry about the catchy title, but I think this thread may be of interest to Parents who are considering migrating to SA and to their children who are in or are headed for SA. I am reluctant to suggest it for any other State because SA is the only State where I know anybody who has looked in to it carefully.

      My friend Mary lives in Adelaide. Her parents have recently returned from 6 months there. Apart from e-mails between myself and Mary, I have done some sleuthing of my own plus I had a long chat with Mary's Dad yesterday. He is undoubtedly clued up.

      Distilling the feedback from various sources, the story is as follows.

      Mary's Parents are "Aged" as per the following link:

      http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/fami.../804/index.htm

      Applications for onshore Aged Parent and Contributory Aged Parent visas at not processed at the POPC (Perth Offshore Parents Centre.) Instead they are processed at the ordinary general DIAC office in the relevant State.

      Mary's Dad recently went to the DIAC office in Adelaide to enquire about Parent visas for himself and his wife. First they described the offshore Contributory Parent visa. He said he was reluctant to shell out approx £40,000 GBP. Hearing this, they advised that the couple should wait till they are ready to return to Adelaide, return there using 90-day ETA visas and then go to the DIAC office again once they arrive.

      The advice Mary's Dad received was to apply for the onshore Aged Parent subclass 804 visa on their return to Adelaide.

      http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/fami.../804/index.htm

      At present, this visa takes about 15 years (sic) to be processed because only 300 are available each year and there are about 5,000 Aged Parent applicants sitting in Australia on Bridging Visas waiting for them. However, on 1st July 2008 this will be doubled to 600 a year, halving the waiting time.

      Compared to the cost of a Contributory Parent or Contributory Aged Parent visa, the cost of an Aged Parent visa is trivial:

      http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/990i/parent.htm

      Additionally the Assurance of Support required for it only lasts for two years instead of 10, and the Bond is $7,000 for a couple instead of $14,000.

      An application for an AP visa is automatically also an application for a Bridging Visa A:

      http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1024i.pdf

      Two aspects of Bridging Visas for Parents worried me initially, though not any more.

      The first concern is that Form 1024i states that an applicant for a Parent visa will not be entitled to Medicare. Fed up with not knowing whether the Reciprocal Health Care Agreement between Oz and the UK would reverse the assertion in Form 1024i, I e-mailed both Medicare and DIAC about this last week.

      Both of them have confirmed to me that as a matter of Policy, a British Parent is indeed covered by the UK/Oz RHCA whilst on a Bridging Visa to the same extent as if s/he were on a tourist visa instead. The RHCA is available regardless of one's age:

      http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/...tors/index.jsp

      Unless a doctor decides that the propsed treatment is "necessary" Medicare will not pay for any of it. Ambulance insurance is required whatever happens.

      My other concern is that a Bridging Visa A does not entitle the Parent to return to Oz if s/he goes abroad for any reason. For that, a Bridging Visa B is needed instead and it must be obtained before the Parent leaves Oz. According to Form 1024i, "substantial reasons" are needed before a Bridging Visa B would be forthcoming.

      According to me, a desire for a family holiday offshore is not a substantial reason, but according to DIAC in Adelaide it is. They say their Policy is that it is not the Aged Parent's fault that AP visas take some years to process. Therefore they are happy to grant a Bridging Visa B and say that this will enable the Parent to spend up to 90 days a year outside Australia if wished. They are not interested in why the Parent might wish to spend time outside Oz. They merely stress that the period outside Oz must not exceed 90 days a year.

      As luck would have it, Mary's family happened to meet another British couple recently who are in their early 70s. The other couple have applied for Aged Parent visas and are living in Adelaide on Bridging Visas. (Until they were encountered, I was urging caution unless and until somebody could be found locally who is actually in this very situation. I tried to find someone via a thread on here a couple of months ago but drew a blank.)

      The other couple have decided on private medical insurance for themselves so they are not bothered about the Medicare cover available to them.

      The other couple have property in South Africa and a child in the UK. Every year, they spend 90 days outside Australia. They go to South Africa, then come to the UK to visit their other child, then back to Adelaide. It suits them to be outside Oz for the three months of winter in Oz so this is what they do.

      Mary's Dad is thorough. Hearing all this from the other couple, he went back to DIAC in Adelaide to ask why anybody would pay for a CPV if DIAC are as liberal as described above? He was told that the reason why Parents are willing to pay for CPVs is because they want fast processing and certainty. Some Parents consider that these considerations are worth £40K GBP. Other Parents consider that hanging on to their capital is a more compelling idea!

      Aged Parent visas involve 2 sets of Meds and Police checks. The first set are done within about a year of the visa application being made. The second set are required some years later when the Parent reaches the head of the Queue.

      Asked what would happen if Mary's Dad or his wife should fail the second meds, DIAC assured him that there would be no question of them being kicked out of Australia.

      Which is true. If one of the Parents fails the second meds, the drill is to Appeal to the Migration Review Tribunal and insist that the Review Medical Officer re-assesses the meds from scratch. New or additional medical info can be supplied to the RMOC and it will be considered. THe reported MRT cases reveal that the RMOC disagrees with the original MOC surprisingly often.

      If the RMOC advises that the medical criteria for migration are met, the MRT must remit the application back to DIAC with an Order that the medical criteria are met. In practice there will be no other issues because the 2nd meds will not be requested if anything else about the application is faulty.

      If the RMOC agrees with the opinion of the original MOC then the MRT must affirm DIAC's original visa refusal and dismiss the appeal. Currently the fixed fee to apply to the MRT is $1400 and approx another $600 to involve the RMOC. If the appeal is successful, the money is refunded. If the appeal is unsuccessful, $2000 is the maximum spent assuming that the family tackle the appeal without professional help - which they can do if they try.

      If the MRT upholds the visa refusal, then as the legislation stands at the moment the next step is a direct appeal to the Minister for Immi under S351 of the Migration Act 1958. . The Minister can substitute his own decision for that of the MRT if he in his sole discretion considers that it is in the publc interest to do so.

      The argument is that it is in the interests of the migrant child and grandchildren to permit the Aged Parents to remain with the rest of the family in Oz. Anything else would cause grave hardship to the migrant child, grandchildren etc It is not in the public interest to attract a skilled migrant so that s/he can strengthen the Australian economy (plus boost the Treasury's coffers) but then treat him/her differently from a native-born Aussie whose own Parents are in Oz as of right. Etc etc etc.

      The results of Ministerial Appeals are not published, but if a Parent is elderly and infirm Australia is very unlikely to try to send him/her back to the UK. By then, s/he has been in Oz for so long that s/he has no real ties left in the UK, plus see above etc etc.

      An Appeal to the MRT can easily take 2 years to be concluded. Ministerial Appeals are equally slow. The Bridging Visa enables the Parent to remain in Australia throughout the Appeals process.

      If s/he was too sick to pass the meds 4 years ago, the chances are that s/he will be much worse (or dead) by the time a Ministerial Appeal fails. If the Parent is too ill to travel, no airline or shipping company will agree to carry him/her out of Oz.

      Kismet. A Bridging Visa P (the medical one) will have to be granted to both Parents because the fit one must be on hand to look after the sick one. Hence Mary's Dad was assured that, one way or another, they would not be kicked out of Australia.

      Entering Oz on a 90-day ETA with this scheme in mind is, technically, spoodly. A 90-day ETA cannot be granted unless the applicant evinces an intention to enter Australia for the purpose of short-stay tourism only. However, the onus is on DIAC to police the borders. It is not realistic for them to give every person travelling through Adelaide Airport a hard time and in practice they don't. Unless they grill the arriving passenger, they have no means of proving intent and they know this so they do not try to take a point that they coud not win in Court. The Parent goes to Oz intending nothing but a short visit. Whilst there, he wanders along to the DIAC office to make enquiries. They tell him that he is eligible for an Aged Parent visa as it happens....

      Food for thought, maybe?

      I think that if anybody wants to investigate this further, you should double-check everything I say. This can be done by visiting the DIAC office in Adelaide and I would strongly recommend doing so in person:

      http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/aust...a-adelaide.htm

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by Gollywobbler; 26-05-2008 at 10:18 AM.

    2. #2

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      Once again Gill my ghast has been flabbered!!!!

      This is very interesting as Tracey's mum may well want to follow us out and this looks like a fabby option for her. I shall begin looking into this.

      Thank you very much for taking the time.

      Pete

    3. #3

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      Hi Pete

      From what I can remember of your own circumstances, you might be under the impression that it will be necessary for Tracey to have lived in Oz for two years before Parent migration might become possible for her mother.

      This is not necessarily so. Please see the article below, written recently by Alan Collett of Go Matilda. Please read the two MRT cases that he cites and then apply common sense.

      http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=441

      My mother has a Contributory Parent visa, hence I am committed to trying to help other people to enable their own beloved Parents to follow my Mum.

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by Gollywobbler; 26-05-2008 at 11:37 AM.

    4. #4

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      Thanks Gill, I will let my mum know all this so she can have a good read and do some research.

      Thanks again

    5. #5

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      thank you

      Thanks Gill, this info is fab.
      I would love for my mum to be able to move over tomorrow!
      Shes coming over in 2 weeks for a holiday, to check were ok etc - like mums do...and to see how she likes it.
      I understand she can only pop over on holidays until we had been here for 2 years, but i se its going to be easier than i thought.
      My mums only 55, still working, owns her own house etc and is happy to pay for the CPV.

    6. #6

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      Hi Katsmajic

      You will not necessarily have to wait till you have lived in Oz for two years before your mother can apply for Parent migration.

      The issue here is whether or not the prospective Sponsor’s lifestyle in Oz has become “settled.” That is a question of fact, not a question of how much time has elapsed since arrival in Oz. Some new migrants settle into Oz and their lifestyles become regular and well-established very quickly. Another migrant might choose to spend five years hitchhiking round Australia with a tent before eventually settling down.

      The reason why the Sponsor’s lifestyle needs to become “settled” before his/her Parent can apply for one of the Parent visas is because in theory the visa could be granted by the end of the same week. The Sponsor undertakes that if the Parent falls on hard times during the Parent’s first two years in Australia, the Sponsor will provide his/her Parent with an adequate home, food, clothing and enough cash to get by on so that the Parent will not be eligible to go cap in hand to Centrelink looking for social security assistance instead.

      There have been a couple of recent Migration Review Tribunal decisions about this question. Please see the article below, written by Alan Collett of Go Matilda, and please also read the two MRT cases that he cites. Although Alan speaks of Contributory Parents and so do the two cases, all the material applies equally to a family considering an application for a Parent or Aged Parent visa insteadL

      http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=441

      Meanwhile, have a great time with your Mum during her visit. My friend Mary’s Parents are in their early 70s and have joined a Seniors Club somewhere in Hallett Cove. This group meet up at a bowling club on a set day each week and apparently there are loads of other members of around the same age as themselves. They’ve formed really good friendships with some of the other couples. Mary’s parents bought themselves a small second hand car whilst they were there for six months so they have now had a good roam around the area, have been to visit their friends’ houses etc. Which is brilliant because they are now really excited and looking forward to the time when they can start their new lives out in Oz. Mary’s Mum says she pinches herself because she would never in her wildest dreams have imagined that she might one day move to Australia! I guess I can completely understand how she feels.

      Best wishes

      Gill

    7. #7

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      Recent Changes to Parent Visas

      Hi All

      One thing DIAC can never be accused of is failing to fiddle with visa arrangements every five minutes!

      First of all, with effect from 1st July 2008 all Parent Visas and Contributory Parent Visas, both the onshore and the offshore versions, have been moved to the POPC, so that the local DIAC offices will no longer deal with the applications for the onshore APVs and CAPVs.

      For those who are interested in Parent migration, POPC stands for "Perth Offshore Parents Centre" and until 1st July 2008 the POPC dealt only with Offshore Parents, hence its name. Well - they are now the Perth Onshore & Offshore Parents Centre, so are they going to change their name to the POOPC? Poopsie doesn't sound any too promising phonetically, so I think changing the name to the PPC might be more dignified but no doubt senior Directors in Canberra are wrestling with this knotty problem!

      In time, the local office in Adelaide will lose its current expertise with Aged Parent Visas simply because they won't have done any for a while. But for the next 2-3 years the Adelaide staff ought to be able to remember enough and even if not, the POPC are always very helpful with queries.

      Seniors Card

      As luck would have it, Mary's family happened to meet another British couple recently who are in their early 70s. The other couple have applied for Aged Parent visas and are living in Adelaide on Bridging Visas.
      I've since heard another snippet about the above couple. Apparently they both have Seniors Cards even though they do not yet have Permanent Residency in Oz:

      http://www.seniorscard.com.au/

      Seemingly Seniors Card SA accepted that the couple have moved to Australia permanently, regardless of what their visas might say, and so they were given their Seniors Cards.

      A Parent who has recently moved to South Australia first told me about Seniors Cards in a reponse on PiA earlier this year:

      We have just discovered that we can also get seniors card's which entitle us to money off in shops, restaurants and cinema's, so every little helps.
      I promptly PM'd the gentleman to pick his brains some more about Seniors Cards. Seemingly the lady in charge of issuing them in Adelaide knows a lot about Seniors Cards and she reckons that the perks which they offer in South Australia are more generous than elsewhere in Oz. He says anyone who wants to know more should contact the very helpful Seniors Card office in Adelaide.

      More recently, I've been chatting with a lady who first moved to Oz as the child of Ten Pound Poms many years ago. She now has a Seniors Card and she says they are very good indeed and well worth getting.

      One to bear in mind, perhaps?

      Best wishes

      Gill
      Last edited by snifter; 26-07-2014 at 05:32 AM. Reason: email

    8. #8
      Ellie
      Gill you are a star! I really needed this information and was directed to you by Django after a post I put on yesterday. Thank you so much!!!

    9. #9
      tiggs
      oooh this is a fantastic thread ... thanks so much for that Gill it is just the info i have been going around in circles trying to find for days!

      and thanks also to wendy who pointed me in the right direction for this

      Adele x

    10. #10

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      Well done Gill another very good post, makes me think that it may be worth taking out the aged visa against the CPV, you have to take out health Insurance to suppliment Medicare or pay a large levy which ever visa you go for.
      Regards
      Les & Babs

     

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