Micheal Jackson and Farrah Fawcet have both died

[Guest Nick11]

Interesting point bill.

I just think this guy wasn't worthy of the mass hysteria that followed him.

[Guest Django]

As for me I'm curious to understand why people feel sympathy for jacko .

As I said in my earlier post - I just don't get it.

 

Nick, I do not have any sympathy for the guy. I do not believe he was 'all there' by any stretch of the imagination. I personally didn't like him as a musician and thought he was well over rated. However, we all have to respect the findings of the courts otherwise we would be living in anarchy. He was not found guilty of anything unlawful so that is what we have to except. This is not my opinion. It is fact. Until someone can prove he was guilty he must remain innocent. This is the foundation of the justice system. I have misgivings about him as I believe we all have. However, how can we using second hand infomation put about by the gutter press find a man guilty when a court using witnesses and evidence found him not guilty?

 

Pete

[Guest Django]

Yeah so have i gone to bed with loads of people,HOWEVER.....not the little children of other people!!:idea:FFS! THATS GUILTY IMO! i dont really care what your opinion is tbh,be interested to know if you would feel the same way if it was your kids he was accused of sleeping with and showering naked with?? P.S as regards your smartarse reply re incest,being gay etc......GROW UP,im not talking about kipping in the same bed as mates or family etc AM i:idea:! jesus wept!im talking about OTHER peoples little kids,theres a difference yes???

 

Calm down, calm down. I think you will find that we share a similar opinion of the bloke. My point maybe put rather badly was that we have to accept the findings of the court. No I wouldn't let my children sleep in his bed but then I wouldn't let them sleep in yours or anyone else's. However I am lead to believe (admittedly by the gutter press) that the parents of Jacko's bed mates did let their children do so willingly. To me its those parents are more to blame than anyone else IF anything untoward went on.

 

Pete

[The Monaghans]

Farah Fawcett, tragic end. RIP

 

And I'll empty my inbox in anticipation of the offence I'm about to cause but Michael Jackson? About time too!!!! God got justice for those little ones because America would not. Maybe his children can have a more normal life than being dangled over balconies and dragged round wearing veils and masks.

 

Well said Libby, I wholeheartedly agree. He was a kiddy fiddler, convicted or not. His death won't be mourned in this house.

[lorluc]

Nick, I do not have any sympathy for the guy. I do not believe he was 'all there' by any stretch of the imagination. I personally didn't like him as a musician and thought he was well over rated. However, we all have to respect the findings of the courts otherwise we would be living in anarchy. He was not found guilty of anything unlawful so that is what we have to except. This is not my opinion. It is fact. Until someone can prove he was guilty he must remain innocent. This is the foundation of the justice system. I have misgivings about him as I believe we all have. However, how can we using second hand infomation put about by the gutter press find a man guilty when a court using witnesses and evidence found him not guilty?

 

Pete

 

I agree with most you have said....except the musician side of the things...

 

Your points regarding the judicial system are spot on! I was reading yesterday some shocking words that were posted elsewhere...praising the fact that he had died, and how they hoped they'd get up the next morning and find Gary Glitter was gone as well! Big difference here...Glitter was found guilty...Jackson wasnt.....

 

Yes....he was weird...wasn't called Wacko Jacko for nothing....and the dangling of his baby over a balcony was shocking! BUT....those who have made their minds up that he was a 'kiddy fiddler'......Were you there? Were you in court? Did you personally see the evidence? NO.....of course you didnt..

 

Parents were more than willing to leave their kids in his care....even after the original allegations regarding Jordy Chandler surfaced....so like Peter has pointed out....if anything wrong did occur, then the parents need to take some responsibility...the Chandlers did very well out of the allegations made.......great incentive for more parents to follow suit?

 

As for his children? Who are we to judge whether they are better off without their father or not? They have been born into a world that is in no way like ours.....at the end of the day they have lost their father.....let's spare a thought for them, shall we?

 

If we are to believe everything we read, it seems their own mother reliqunished all rights to them for a multi million pay off....but did she?

 

If there is a God up there.....he will be judged in due course....

 

 

My point is that none of know for sure, one way or another.... I will go with the decision that the jury came to......and show respect that the world has lost a great talent....

[lorluc]

Well said Libby, I wholeheartedly agree. He was a kiddy fiddler, convicted or not. His death won't be mourned in this house.

 

How do you know?

 

Were you there?

 

Did you see the evidence?

[Guest weesp]

Well said Libby, I wholeheartedly agree. He was a kiddy fiddler, convicted or not. His death won't be mourned in this house.

 

 

 

I'd hate to be tried by you, they have no evidence that he actually did it, he was freed by the courts.

 

For all that have condemned him walk a mile in his shoes and then see if you say the same!

 

I feel sorry for the guy, don't they say that money doesnt bring happiness!

 

Lynn

[Guest Nick11]

Nick, I do not have any sympathy for the guy. I do not believe he was 'all there' by any stretch of the imagination. I personally didn't like him as a musician and thought he was well over rated. However, we all have to respect the findings of the courts otherwise we would be living in anarchy. He was not found guilty of anything unlawful so that is what we have to except. This is not my opinion. It is fact. Until someone can prove he was guilty he must remain innocent. This is the foundation of the justice system. I have misgivings about him as I believe we all have. However, how can we using second hand infomation put about by the gutter press find a man guilty when a court using witnesses and evidence found him not guilty?

 

Pete

 

 

Okay Pete - but what about how he dangled the baby over the balcony. If you did that - you'd be on supervised visits with your kids for the rest of your life.

He admitted he had slept in the same bed as the boys. Okay I admit he was found not guilty and therefore innocent about him touching the boys - but what sort of man in this day and age feels it is natural to sleep in the same bed as a young boy.

[bill]

Okay Pete - but what about how he dangled the baby over the balcony. If you did that - you'd be on supervised visits with your kids for the rest of your life.

He admitted he had slept in the same bed as the boys. Okay I admit he was found not guilty and therefore innocent about him touching the boys - but what sort of man in this day and age feels it is natural to sleep in the same bed as a young boy.

 

I think the baby-dangling thing is a bit of hysteria. How many of you can say that you haven't thrown your toddler into the air and caught him or her? What if you or I missed catching the child? That's the risk we take, it's part of life. Isn't that endangering our child? What about when we pick up the crying baby on a long journey in the car? Isn't that similar? We might get fined for the latter or called irresponsible for the former. But supervised visits for the rest of our lives? I don't think so, because none of us is perfect - or am I wrong about that?

[Guest guest569]

I think the baby-dangling thing is a bit of hysteria. How many of you can say that you haven't thrown your toddler into the air and caught him or her? What if you or I missed catching the child? That's the risk we take, it's part of life. Isn't that endangering our child? What about when we pick up the crying baby on a long journey in the car? Isn't that similar? We might get fined for the latter or called irresponsible for the former. But supervised visits for the rest of our lives? I don't think so, because none of us is perfect - or am I wrong about that?

 

 

Glad you worded it so well as how many children jacko tossed .......could have implied he was guilty !!!

[Guest Nick11]

I think the baby-dangling thing is a bit of hysteria. How many of you can say that you haven't thrown your toddler into the air and caught him or her? What if you or I missed catching the child? That's the risk we take, it's part of life. Isn't that endangering our child? What about when we pick up the crying baby on a long journey in the car? Isn't that similar? We might get fined for the latter or called irresponsible for the former. But supervised visits for the rest of our lives? I don't think so, because none of us is perfect - or am I wrong about that?

 

No I'm sorry - it's not the same as throwing a toddler in the air. Dangling him over the balcony whilst he has a towel on the head - no it's absolutely not!!!!

And how actions like that can be defended leaves me absolutely speechless!!!

[Guest guest569]

No I'm sorry - it's not the same as throwing a toddler in the air. Dangling him over the balcony whilst he has a towel on the head - no it's absolutely not!!!!

 

 

Also if you drop a child from say 5ft it would hurt !!! BUT from a high up balcony then its not worth even thinking about !!!

At the end of the day a forum is full of individual members all with their own opions and points of view. some will agree and others will disagree. Thats life.

All i can add is two celebrities died died yesterday and if their is a heaven and hell then i know where charlies angel went and the other.......

[ianb]

cant believe even a post like this starts getting "bitchy comments"

Well yes i can from what seems to happen lately!

 

Love them or hate them the world has lost two "talented" performers

[Guest jorose]

cant believe even a post like this starts getting "bitchy comments"

Well yes i can from what seems to happen lately!

 

Love them or hate them the world has lost two "talented" performers

 

My sentiments exactly.

[bill]

No I'm sorry - it's not the same as throwing a toddler in the air. Dangling him over the balcony whilst he has a towel on the head - no it's absolutely not!!!!

And how actions like that can be defended leaves me absolutely speechless!!!

 

Ah, glad some good has come out of my post! :biglaugh:

[Guest Lisado]

Glad you worded it so well as how many children jacko tossed .......could have implied he was guilty !!!

 

 

LOL very quick!

[Guest Lisado]

I'm sick of the celebrity culture - waste of space the lot of them and its worrying how some kids seem to follow in their footsteps - mine thankfully are not! The lived they die - just like ordinary people do.

[Guest Nick11]

Ah, glad some good has come out of my post! :biglaugh:

 

As someone who's been at the sharpe end with physically,mentally and sexually abused children - and yes even been through a couple of deaths of children through abuse my tolerance level is very low!

[The Monaghans]

God save us all from bleeding heart do-gooders who go through life thinking everything is rosy in the garden. THE MAN LIKED TO SHARE HIS BED WITH CHILDREN!!!! That is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR! He paid off a family to avoid court action - and before you all jump onto your keyboards, yes I know that reflects as badly on the wretched child's family as it does on the wannabe white freak. That doesn't mean it was bloody ok! God only knows the damage he's inflicted on his own children, frankly they're better off without him, as is every other child who was in danger of coming into contact with him.

 

Go on, take your best shots.

[Guest guest569]

And as poor farah fawcett went up to heaven she was met at the pearly gates by god himself. "Farah " God said. " And for your dying wish , what can i do for you ?"

"Please God" she said " Make the earth a safer place for all children ......"

:biglaugh:

[lorluc]

God save us all from bleeding heart do-gooders who go through life thinking everything is rosy in the garden. THE MAN LIKED TO SHARE HIS BED WITH CHILDREN!!!! That is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR! He paid off a family to avoid court action - and before you all jump onto your keyboards, yes I know that reflects as badly on the wretched child's family as it does on the wannabe white freak. That doesn't mean it was bloody ok! God only knows the damage he's inflicted on his own children, frankly they're better off without him, as is every other child who was in danger of coming into contact with him.

 

Go on, take your best shots.

 

First of all, I am far from being a do-gooder and certainly do not believe that everything is rosy! But I cant understand how people can make their minds up without knowing the facts.....(i refer back to my reply to your original comments).

 

We all have seen the facts about Glitter....that awful Fritzel guy in Austria..the kids that killed Jamie Bulger...who if we are being told correctly, now have new identities etc..and are living a normal life....how fair is that????? It isn't.....they should never have seen the light of day again..IMO...but hey that's another case..

 

Jackson wasnt normal...far from it...not disputing that at all...I believe that judgements can only be made from hard, concrete facts....that's all...

[Guest Libby1971]

Some of us have personal experience of seeing children who have suffered abuse. In Nicks case, she has had to cope with deaths as a result. My experience was not as far as that but I have been able to see how abuse experienced at a younger age can have effects into nigh adulthood and just how heartbreaking it is to see this child, broken, damaged, and not have any way of making their world a better place. They've seen things I can't even begin to imagine.

 

This issue is emotive and our responses are emotional. I will not accept that there was anything even remotely normal about that man's relationship with anyone but the relationships he had with children, were damaging and harmful (reputation, emotional, psychological etc). Some talk about proof, and there were no concrete facts...the concrete fact of a payout worth millions would imply to me, and others, that the man was buying silence. I don't deny that the parents of these children should be held as accountable as MJ but the fact remains he still did it. As a performer he was untouchable...I will never forget Thriller and then he got too much wax or preservative and it addled his brain and he became a nutter, and then many became uncomfortable with seeing his ramblings on TV. It was tragic, and his descent was so so sad.

 

But he is not and was not a total innocent. And many, like myself, cannot accept or forgive the behaviour of one who was old enough to know better. He abused his power, his wealth, his position and those children, and no-one held him accountable - he got away with it. Yes he went to trial...and yes they found him not guilty. But we all know that trials are not cut and dry anymore and that juries can get things wrong. Who in their right mind would think OJ was innocent? When courts get things right, fine. Yes the gutter press hype things up but even when we first started hearing of Bubbles the monkey being his best friend, we all thought he was wierd then, confirmed when he was supposedly sleeping in an oxygen tent, wearing masks, and his relationship with kids was bizarre.

 

No longer, God got him.

[Guest Nick11]

You know what - I am so glad that most of you guys are not involved in the reality of child abuse and what goes on. And that is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, shape or form.

I only wish I shared your sentiments.

I will now leave this discussion as I'm starting to get angry and loose my sense of perspective.

I hope to god none of you ever have to go through these experiences.

Nick

xxx

[The Monaghans]

Some of us have personal experience of seeing children who have suffered abuse. In Nicks case, she has had to cope with deaths as a result. My experience was not as far as that but I have been able to see how abuse experienced at a younger age can have effects into nigh adulthood and just how heartbreaking it is to see this child, broken, damaged, and not have any way of making their world a better place. They've seen things I can't even begin to imagine.

 

This issue is emotive and our responses are emotional. I will not accept that there was anything even remotely normal about that man's relationship with anyone but the relationships he had with children, were damaging and harmful (reputation, emotional, psychological etc). Some talk about proof, and there were no concrete facts...the concrete fact of a payout worth millions would imply to me, and others, that the man was buying silence. I don't deny that the parents of these children should be held as accountable as MJ but the fact remains he still did it. As a performer he was untouchable...I will never forget Thriller and then he got too much wax or preservative and it addled his brain and he became a nutter, and then many became uncomfortable with seeing his ramblings on TV. It was tragic, and his descent was so so sad.

 

But he is not and was not a total innocent. And many, like myself, cannot accept or forgive the behaviour of one who was old enough to know better. He abused his power, his wealth, his position and those children, and no-one held him accountable - he got away with it. Yes he went to trial...and yes they found him not guilty. But we all know that trials are not cut and dry anymore and that juries can get things wrong. Who in their right mind would think OJ was innocent? When courts get things right, fine. Yes the gutter press hype things up but even when we first started hearing of Bubbles the monkey being his best friend, we all thought he was wierd then, confirmed when he was supposedly sleeping in an oxygen tent, wearing masks, and his relationship with kids was bizarre.

 

No longer, God got him.

 

Not God, Libby. Think he's gone somewhere much, much hotter than that.

 

By the way, hasn't Gary Glitter continued to protest his innocence, even after his conviction? What if, heaven forbid, the jury got it wrong?

 

My final words on the subject - it kills me to say it but Thriller WAS the most fabulous video ever, and some of his songs were classics. Still think he's a pervert, always will, not going to change my mind.

[lorluc]

You know what - I am so glad that most of you guys are not involved in the reality of child abuse and what goes on. And that is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, shape or form.

I only wish I shared your sentiments.

I will now leave this discussion as I'm starting to get angry and loose my sense of perspective.

I hope to god none of you ever have to go through these experiences.

Nick

xxx

 

I have Nick.......Jon & I were faced with the reality of child abuse involving a friend of our daughter's a few years ago.....something i hope, i never have to deal with again....

 

Lorraine