End up like Britain??

[Sallyh]

Well yes, Madam and Sir is a polite way of speaking to someone whose name you don't know, isn't it? Alternatively, it can be used disrespectfully dependent on the tone. Either you're using inflammatory words deliberately because you want to turn this into more of an argument (if anyone could be bothered to tackle your attitude) or you are just ignorant. Of your words, their effect, and the facts. Whether the thread's locked or not I won't be back posting on it again, some things are worth 'talking to' and some aren't.

[Guest Guest5035]

Well yes, Madam and Sir is a polite way of speaking to someone whose name you don't know, isn't it? Alternatively, it can be used disrespectfully dependent on the tone. Either you're using inflammatory words deliberately because you want to turn this into more of an argument (if anyone could be bothered to tackle your attitude) or you are just ignorant. Of your words, their effect, and the facts. Whether the thread's locked or not I won't be back posting on it again, some things are worth 'talking to' and some aren't.

 

Well i thought you would have answered the question i asked, but i think you have just done that. I'm not ignorant at all of my words or their effect or the facts, everything is the truth of what is happening to this country. The way its going it will end up like Britain.

Sorry to see you go. i don't think the mods have a excuse to lock the thread, upto now i've been a good boy, Dianes watching me...

 

stevo

[Guest rich]

Stevo, you're at risk of looking a bit silly here. Of course we don't refer to them as Madam or Sir, but I would like to think you were intelligent enough to be able to strike some kind of balance between a bigoted name and something that's irrelevant.

 

Plus, can you please quote me all of the people who are currently living in 5 star hotels. if there are any, it probably isn't representative of the overall number of people currently in need of assistance, or are you just using hyperbole to illustrate a point?

 

As for me? I think you have a very mistaken view of what I think. I would suggest that we deal with troublemakers as the law requires. You keep banging on about how we should do that if we live here etc... the law states that those guilty of disorder should be punished accordingly. I would suggest a fair trial, something that these people are routinely denied. Perhaps through this they could experience a democratic process that may help them understand what this country and her principles are founded on. It could be a way of demonstrating some compassion to someone who has been misguided and misled; show them how we live and let them aspire to that. If he has to spend some time locked up in a cell, so be it, but do it democratically.

 

As for the others, well I wouldn't think 'Sir' and 'Madam' would require anything more than a bed, some food, some water and a little bit of security while their situations are resolved on a case by case basis. If someone has a legitimate need to be here, then welcome, if not then they should go. I believe that's what the law says anyway.

 

The point is, there is a need to treat others with respect and humanity, and not subject them to detention in what amounts to prison camps. I reiterate an earlier post, did we learn nothing from our own tortured history?

 

Rulebreakers need punsihment, but lets show them how we do it over here, in this fantastic democracy.

 

Stevo, lay off the 'Abdullah' nonsense though, it really doesn't help this thread and everyone knows it.

[Guest Guest5035]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/government-defends-asylum-hotel-bill/story-e6frf7jx-1226006180990 perhaps i was 1 star wrong, i apologise

 

any lawbreakers should be given a trial then kicked out if found guilty, simple or don't you agree with that?

 

stevo

[Guest rich]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/government-defends-asylum-hotel-bill/story-e6frf7jx-1226006180990 perhaps i was 1 star wrong, i apologise

 

any lawbreakers should be given a trial then kicked out if found guilty, simple or don't you agree with that?

 

stevo

 

glad you're meeting me halfway on a fair trial!

 

if a tourist committed a crime and was found guilty then they'd leave too, by the rule of law the same would apply to anyone else for that matter. I'd go with that under the majority of circumstances. I'll meet you halfway on that one...

 

as for the article, good spot, but if the detention centres were anywhere near adequately provisioned it would prevent such things happening, kind of linking back to my earlier point.

[Guest rich]

by the way, get onto Gillard quick, we may have solved this one...

[Guest lastboyscout]

Stevo, you're at risk of looking a bit silly here. Of course we don't refer to them as Madam or Sir, but I would like to think you were intelligent enough to be able to strike some kind of balance between a bigoted name and something that's irrelevant.

 

Plus, can you please quote me all of the people who are currently living in 5 star hotels. if there are any, it probably isn't representative of the overall number of people currently in need of assistance, or are you just using hyperbole to illustrate a point?

 

As for me? I think you have a very mistaken view of what I think. I would suggest that we deal with troublemakers as the law requires. You keep banging on about how we should do that if we live here etc... the law states that those guilty of disorder should be punished accordingly. I would suggest a fair trial, something that these people are routinely denied. Perhaps through this they could experience a democratic process that may help them understand what this country and her principles are founded on. It could be a way of demonstrating some compassion to someone who has been misguided and misled; show them how we live and let them aspire to that. If he has to spend some time locked up in a cell, so be it, but do it democratically.

 

As for the others, well I wouldn't think 'Sir' and 'Madam' would require anything more than a bed, some food, some water and a little bit of security while their situations are resolved on a case by case basis. If someone has a legitimate need to be here, then welcome, if not then they should go. I believe that's what the law says anyway.

 

The point is, there is a need to treat others with respect and humanity, and not subject them to detention in what amounts to prison camps. I reiterate an earlier post, did we learn nothing from our own tortured history?

 

Rulebreakers need punsihment, but lets show them how we do it over here, in this fantastic democracy.

 

Stevo, lay off the 'Abdullah' nonsense though, it really doesn't help this thread and everyone knows it.

 

 

Again Rich I`m in agreement with alot of things you put, however............

 

I hate to harp on about the poppy burning incident in London to which the accused appeared in front of a court(albeit in the UK) and was given a fine of 50 pound, in total reversal of the actions, a man walked into a library and took out a copy of the koran, walked into a shopping arcade and proceeded to burn the holy book, to which he was arrested and is now in prison for 70 days.

 

Now I know this has no relevance for here in Australia, but the UK is supposed to have one of the oldest and best legal systems in the world, so is this justice?? Bearing in mind that the radical muslim was actually born in the UK so should really know that his actions were wrong??

 

I think that no matter how long you have resided within a chosen country, your head can be turned by a `mad cleric` who will turn everything you believed in a western country upside down and make you hate and despise all the things you were led to believe!!!

 

Is Australia heading the same way?? Who knows?? Perhaps the old dear might have learned from other countries who are now paying the price of the `open door policy`.

 

The programme on Dateline was emphasising more about the threat now posed by African Muslims than to the usual Middle Eastern Muslims who are now embracing democracy and are more tolerant than ever, but the total opposite is happening in the UK , where young Muslims there are openly saying that they want the UK governed by Sharia law in the not too distant future, thus taking a backward step (IMO) and going back to the Dark Ages

 

Will the Anglo Saxons of England become the new political refugees ? Lets hope not;)

[Guest rich]

Well look, I do get your points and totally get your frustrations but Britain has a far from perfect legal system. Agreed it should be sorted out. The irregular punishments probably have their roots in old and out of date rules governing location of offence, and damage to public property and weighs them that way. We can't change that. Maybe someone will...

 

The whole Sharia thing bugs me - some madmen want to implement it - i don't think it would ever get to the stage where it became any more than a local thing. You have to remember that despite what sensationalist news comes out of the media from time to time, Britain's Muslims are far far outnumbered by non-Muslims, and within that comparatively small minority there is an even smaller minority of complete tools. With that kind of small-time backing, I cannot ever envisage a time when Sharia takes over as a dominant force, indeed with the Arab Spring currently in full ripple effect, I would hypothesise that a growing liberalism in the Islamic world may grow in the next 50 years or so.

 

Of course, I could be wrong, but this is just me thinking.

 

In addition I agree with you about the mad cleric effect. There are always a few gullible souls who cling to the desire to be part of something. But Hitler was the same, sort of a mad cleric... how on earth did he manage to fool so many people? I guess you can but hope people have an ounce of common sense and don't fall for their idiot rhetoric and nonsense anti-west propaganda.

 

As for the open door policy, you could argue the other way and say it has been a boon in many respects. I'd say it's a 50/50 split to be honest.

 

i think Australia as a progressive modern and young country has a lot of potential to actually show the world the correct way to deal with these issues. Firm but fair, with respect following respect. As an eternal optimist I can but hope...

 

Thanks for the sensible points, I appreciated reading them.

[Guest guest5559]

Wow! lots of people have told me that these sites are very depressing! Gees, seeing is believeing... immigrants in a foriegn land critising other 'types' of immigrants! All immigrants have one thing in common: the desire for a better + easier life! It should end there but nooo there is a difference... mirror mirror on the wall whose the fairest, truest & most justified of us all! A reply comes in the form of one's own reflection... thou art of course etc... ! Sometimes a little bit of self awareness & self critcism is what is needed!!! Racism like poverty there will always be, but who knows tomorrows dominant racism could be against you and your reasons for being! My Australian neighbour recently said to me, people need to realise that Australia is after all in Asia!! And an Australian colleague informed me of a town called Elizabeth... built specially for the English migrants from the sixties who she claimed have never worked & they now have 3rd generations who have never worked but live on state pensions!! This lady I discerned did not like the English & I found what she had to say as ill-informed & depressing as some of the views expressed here!

[Guest Guest5035]

Wow! lots of people have told me that these sites are very depressing! Gees, seeing is believeing... immigrants in a foriegn land critising other 'types' of immigrants! All immigrants have one thing in common: the desire for a better + easier life! It should end there but nooo there is a difference... mirror mirror on the wall whose the fairest, truest & most justified of us all! A reply comes in the form of one's own reflection... thou art of course etc... ! Sometimes a little bit of self awareness & self critcism is what is needed!!! Racism like poverty there will always be, but who knows tomorrows dominant racism could be against you and your reasons for being! My Australian neighbour recently said to me, people need to realise that Australia is after all in Asia!! And an Australian colleague informed me of a town called Elizabeth... built specially for the English migrants from the sixties who she claimed have never worked & they now have 3rd generations who have never worked but live on state pensions!! This lady I discerned did not like the English & I found what she had to say as ill-informed & depressing as some of the views expressed here!

 

Yes i agree, but not all are on 100% handouts and everyone gets some kind of handout don't we, there is a fine line between working and claiming the dole, goverments need to be more stronger in stopping this, but then the doo gooders come out, just like in some of the replies expressed here.

 

The way things are going, the place will end up like Britain. What will be next........Poms in Timbuk2

Stevo

[Guest lastboyscout]

Wow! lots of people have told me that these sites are very depressing! Gees, seeing is believeing... immigrants in a foriegn land critising other 'types' of immigrants! All immigrants have one thing in common: the desire for a better + easier life! It should end there but nooo there is a difference... mirror mirror on the wall whose the fairest, truest & most justified of us all! A reply comes in the form of one's own reflection... thou art of course etc... ! Sometimes a little bit of self awareness & self critcism is what is needed!!! Racism like poverty there will always be, but who knows tomorrows dominant racism could be against you and your reasons for being! My Australian neighbour recently said to me, people need to realise that Australia is after all in Asia!! And an Australian colleague informed me of a town called Elizabeth... built specially for the English migrants from the sixties who she claimed have never worked & they now have 3rd generations who have never worked but live on state pensions!! This lady I discerned did not like the English & I found what she had to say as ill-informed & depressing as some of the views expressed here!

 

 

Whoa there, hold on a minute , at which point did I criticize immigrants????

 

The people we pointed out were the `wrong-doers` who come over to here and expect everything on a plate, the ones who stamp up and down when they can`t and decide to torch and smash the residence that they are given.(Albeit archaic and prison like) In my job I get to chat to alot of `10 Pound Poms` who arrived here with hardly anything, were put up in a tin shack , had no means of getting around (except for shanksy`s pony:biglaugh:) didn`t have air con for those hot days and heat for the cold ones , and not one of those jumped up and down complaining about it, they just got on and integrated and worked hard for what they wanted.

 

But the funiest thing is not all of them were Poms, I get the same story from Dutch, German, Chinese etc......

 

And when did lively debate become depressing?, if you don`t like it, don`t read it

[minty]

Wether you come in via the front door or back door everyone once there should behave and have it clearly set out that if you cross this line you get sent home with no appeal (could even write it into the visa rules).

 

I dont think anyone can really begrudge real refugees the chance to a better life though. Some of these people come from countries and situations that people from the UK can only imagine. After all we try to emigrate to better ourselfs, make our lives easier and we dont have the worry of simple things like food, clean water, let alone wether we could get killed just becouse we are the wrong religion, tribe, sex, have different beliefs, ect.

 

Yes some people pay money to someone to get on a boat but its becouse they could not legitimatly get a visa.

[Guest Guest75]

Just jumping in as Ref here...................

 

Stevo, I think you need to change the term you are using,sadly we all know what you mean by "Abdullahs" but it could be seen as an insult/racist.

 

I'm doing my best to leave this thread going so please think about it.

[Guest Guest5035]

Wether you come in via the front door or back door everyone once there should behave and have it clearly set out that if you cross this line you get sent home with no appeal (could even write it into the visa rules).

.

 

 

I'll vote for you, as long as integrate is included.

 

stevo

[Guest Guest75]

Sorry,could not resist popping this in.........................................

 

 

 

 

An Englishman, a Scotsman, an Irishman, a Welshman, a Gurkha, a Latvian, a Turk, an Aussie, a German, a Yank, an Egyptian, a Japanese, a Mexican, a Spaniard, a Russian, a Pole, a Lithuanian, a Swede, a Finn, an Israeli, a Romanian, a Bulgarian, a Serb, a Swiss, a Greek, a Singaporean, an Italian, a Norwegian, a Libyan, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist and an Ethiopian went to a night club.

 

The bouncer said,

 

 

 

 

Wait for it..............................

 

 

"Sorry, I can’t let you in without a Thai."

 

 

 

:biglaugh::biglaugh:

[Guest Guest5035]

Just jumping in as Ref here...................

 

Stevo, I think you need to change the term you are using,sadly we all know what you mean by "Abdullahs" but it could be seen as an insult/racist.

 

I'm doing my best to leave this thread going so please think about it.

 

I won't use it again as i've changed my term.

 

(Not being funny here, but being called a Pom can be aswell).

 

I don't mind one bit, an old boss from New Zealander called me a Pom on first meeting, i called him Kiwi in reply, he then said you can't call me that, i said i can if you call me Pom, i got the job and thats how we named each other after that.

 

stevo

[Guest Guest75]

I won't use it again as i've changed my term.

 

(Not being funny here, but being called a Pom can be aswell).

 

I don't mind one bit, an old boss from New Zealander called me a Pom on first meeting, i called him Kiwi in reply, he then said you can't call me that, i said i can if you call me Pom, i got the job and thats how we named each other after that.

 

stevo

 

Fully understand Steve,but at least it allows threads like this to carry on

 

I'm a "Pozzie" and proud of it - A Pom with Ozzy citizenship :cute:

[Guest Guest5035]

Sorry,could not resist popping this in.........................................

 

 

 

 

An Englishman, a Scotsman, an Irishman, a Welshman, a Gurkha, a Latvian, a Turk, an Aussie, a German, a Yank, an Egyptian, a Japanese, a Mexican, a Spaniard, a Russian, a Pole, a Lithuanian, a Swede, a Finn, an Israeli, a Romanian, a Bulgarian, a Serb, a Swiss, a Greek, a Singaporean, an Italian, a Norwegian, a Libyan, a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist and an Ethiopian went to a night club.

 

The bouncer said,

 

 

 

 

Wait for it..............................

 

 

"Sorry, I can’t let you in without a Thai."

 

 

 

:biglaugh:

 

Just jumping in as Ref here...................

 

Stevo, I think you need to change the term you are using,sadly we all know what you mean by "Abdullahs" but it could be seen as an insult/racist.

 

I'm doing my best to leave this thread going so please think about it.

 

Oh Tyke, hope theres no Thai people on this site, that joke could be seen as racist/insulting:D

 

Stevo

[Diane]

Honestly boys, a serious topic and you drag it down into humour!!!

 

Getting back to the intelligent side of this thread, what I don't understand us why the government can't link two problems: there are lots of asylum seekers being held in a secure centre while their credentials are being checked out - often for many months at a time; there are lots of unfilled jobs - such as out at the mines - for which skilled and trained migrants from overseas are being sought. Often western european migrants are put off by the lack of civilisation out at some of these places, and not wanting to be miles from urban centres, but perhaps that might not be such an issue for someone coming from a war torn place?

 

My solution? Turn the Detention Camps into skills training camps. Teach these people how to drive a big truck, how to weld etc etc, then when/if they're cleared for release, they are in demand, they contribute to the economy, etc etc - and if they don't get clearance, at least they can go to wherever they are sent afterwards in a better situation than they arrived! And the government can stop bringing in so many bloody poms and overfilling this beautiful country of mine!!!

 

Wouldn't that work??

[Guest rich]

Honestly boys, a serious topic and you drag it down into humour!!!

 

Getting back to the intelligent side of this thread, what I don't understand us why the government can't link two problems: there are lots of asylum seekers being held in a secure centre while their credentials are being checked out - often for many months at a time; there are lots of unfilled jobs - such as out at the mines - for which skilled and trained migrants from overseas are being sought. Often western european migrants are put off by the lack of civilisation out at some of these places, and not wanting to be miles from urban centres, but perhaps that might not be such an issue for someone coming from a war torn place?

 

My solution? Turn the Detention Camps into skills training camps. Teach these people how to drive a big truck, how to weld etc etc, then when/if they're cleared for release, they are in demand, they contribute to the economy, etc etc - and if they don't get clearance, at least they can go to wherever they are sent afterwards in a better situation than they arrived! And the government can stop bringing in so many bloody poms and overfilling this beautiful country of mine!!!

 

Wouldn't that work??

 

I for one would love to read more responses like yours Diane, an intelligent and worthwhile proposition.

 

I just think Australia is in a unique position globally to do something potentially profound and make a huge difference.

 

 

 

On a different note addressing an earlier post:

 

It would be nice to not be labelled a 'do gooder' simply for having the intelligence to suggest we don't tar everyone with the same brush and demonstrate a bit of compassion...

[Guest guest5559]

I actually came on to look for a hairdresser and then stumbled across this thread and thought, bloody hell this is just like the conversation I had at work with an Australian except she was going on about the English and said a lot more besides! So it was just a cautionary about how blind we can be on how others view us. The truth is often more complex! I don't need educating on the situation of the £10 poms or their hard work, struggle etc etc. I was passing on a view that I didn't agree with on English migrants but which struck me as the incredibly similar to a few of the views (by no means all) I've read here about some other migrant groups... except on that occassion it was the views of an Australian on the English! It was intended as a cautionary.

Also just because I found something I read depressing doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it! Don't you ever read things & after reading think... ooh I find this rather depressing or whatever, unfortunately I am no psychic so have to read first then decide, sometimes I find as you read on things get better so my 1st impression may be altered! But reading this thread also helped me understand better why lots of my English friends & colleagues including my hubby say they don't go on these sites cos they found them very depressing! Does this mean I can't say as much?

[Guest lastboyscout]

I actually came on to look for a hairdresser and then stumbled across this thread and thought, bloody hell this is just like the conversation I had at work with an Australian except she was going on about the English and said a lot more besides! So it was just a cautionary about how blind we can be on how others view us. The truth is often more complex! I don't need educating on the situation of the £10 poms or their hard work, struggle etc etc. I was passing on a view that I didn't agree with on English migrants but which struck me as the incredibly similar to a few of the views (by no means all) I've read here about some other migrant groups... except on that occassion it was the views of an Australian on the English! It was intended as a cautionary.

Also just because I found something I read depressing doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it! Don't you ever read things & after reading think... ooh I find this rather depressing or whatever, unfortunately I am no psychic so have to read first then decide, sometimes I find as you read on things get better so my 1st impression may be altered! But reading this thread also helped me understand better why lots of my English friends & colleagues including my hubby say they don't go on these sites cos they found them very depressing! Does this mean I can't say as much?

 

 

No Gill, it doesn`t What you need to understand is everyones views are different and should be respected, whether you think they are racist or not, everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as its just debate and no fisticuffs then everything is fine by me.

 

Upon the start of this debate I looked up a few things and found that Australia has followed the lead from the UK and formed a group calling themselves the Australian Defence League

 

http://www.libertiesalliance.org/2010/01/25/australian-defence-league-%E2%80%93-the-defence-league-movement-against-sharia-law-goes-global/

 

Seems like a whole new generation of people are going all out for a religious war !!!

 

I can see dark days ahead , the war between the Emperor and the tight knit rebellion, with the Emporers tool of war having asthma and breathing heavily, and the rebellion being led by the small army of Jedi

[Guest Guest5035]

Honestly boys, a serious topic and you drag it down into humour!!!

 

Wouldn't that work??

 

Hello Diane, knew you were lurking somewhere, please don't use the word POM, as it can be seen as racist, you might get modded!!

Yes it got a bit heated as my threads normally do, but everyone has a opinion, because we don't agree with each other, doesn't mean we stop posting does it?

 

I see reports of countries like France where they are queing up to get into the UK, i think its going to happen here, just don't want it to.

 

I have lots of compassion for things in life, i had tears in my eyes the other night watching SYTYCD as they got told they were in the final group.

 

Stevo

[Diane]

But reading this thread also helped me understand better why lots of my English friends & colleagues including my hubby say they don't go on these sites cos they found them very depressing!

 

Can't see why anyone would find this thread depressing! It's a lively debate between people with different views and opinions, that so far hasn't degenerated into fisiticuffs! Gosh, anyone that finds this depressing must never have gone into a pub in the Uk and had a chat with friends!! Perhaps that's why they're depressed....

 

As has been said above, everyone is allowed their own opinions, as long as they do their best to back up WHY they feel that way, and respect others' rights to think differently. Some will maybe change and reconsider after reading other viewpoints, others will not. That's how life is!

 

That's also what a democracy is, and to me it would be depressing if people weren't allowed this freedom of speech!

[Diane]

.... i had tears in my eyes the other night watching SYTYCD as they got told they were in the final group.

 

Hmmm, it's like one of those quiz questions..... Something like Strictly Come Dancing perhaps?? Or is it a nickname for some footy team? (Wouldn't be one of the South Aussie ones for sure!!!)