Guest Guest6899

Am i being discriminated against?? advice please

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    Guest Guest6899

    Hi all i thought i would throw my situation out to yourselves as not getting much sympathy at work. Iv qualified as a staff nurse in Jan 09 in my PDR (apraisal) beginning of 2010 i advised i would like to do a mentorship course (mentoring students). All through that year I was advised no money and no places. Another PDR beginning of 2011 again i bought up i would like to do the course, 2 people have done this course this year and now suprise suprise no money. So looks like i probally wont get on it as it will go to next year and i want to be moved by then.

     

    When i spoke with my manager last week about the course the first thing she said was "when are you leaving?" i have also heard that they have a replacement nurse and i have not even left yet!! I told my manager i have 5 years to move it may not be quick as the house market does not seem to be moving. I spoke with my best friend and she also said well you will be leaving?? my point is that anybody could do a course and then leave trusts does that mean you should never be trained in anything?? OR are work correct and they shouldnt waste their money on me because i will be leaving in the future?? :sad: I want to progress in my position and the next step is the mentorship course.

     

    Anybody?? Lisa

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    Hi Lisa

    I'm pretty sure if you haven't given a date to leave yet then they have to treat you equally, but suppose may be difficult to prove thats why you didn't get on course?

    I have had the joy (not) of working with my replacement (although she is lovely!) for the last six months (before i even had a visa!) and now have only six shifts left thank god! My previous manager was no bother at all but got new one six months ago who brought my repalcement with her!It is hard to explain how awkward it made me feel, the constant 'so you'll be leaving once visa through'. NO i need to sell our flat, and eventually just said I would decide when I was leaving! Without a definite date to leave they certainly shouldn't be discriminating cos who knows why or when plans may change? Problem in this financial climate is that will be easy to explain that not enough study money to go around? Stick to your guns though, and brazen it out, it's your life to decide when you'll go! Are you in a union?

    Gill x

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    This is a good example of why you don't inform employers about your intentions until the day you hand your notice in.

     

    You most probably are, but it's up to you to prove it I'd imagine.

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    Guest moonraker1959

    I know you must be feeling pretty frustrated with the situation,but do you mind me asking why you told your place of work you'd be leaving when infact you said yourself that it could be 5 years?I think in hindsight it would of been much better to not have metioned the move,and then just given notice when the time came.Maybe you could ask your manager why you havent been offered this course.To my way of thinking,if you might not leave for the next 5 years,then you should be just carrying on with your life as normal,like nothing is happening.I guess your manager has offered the other people the courses because they have obviously offered commitment.As you would know the NHS's training funds have been messed around with lately,and as you have already told them you will be leaving in the future,then I guess they have to be very careful who they offer the training to.Yes there is a risk that those people doing the training could at some point move on themselves,but they are probably looking at you now like you're in the high risk catagory.All is not lost though,I would have a chat with the manager and reiterate your reasons for wanting the training.Good luck and I hope it works in your favour!

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    I also regretted having to tell my manager, but for ANMC skills assessment I needed a written reference detailing my skills and job specifications from my manager, and a C.V signed by my manager, so was kinda hard to hide it!

    Gill

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    Sorry but ... can you really expect the organisation to throw money at you when youve already told them you'll be leaving? They are not going to get anything from putting you through the course. Can you pay for it yourself ?

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    Guest guest4504
    Hi all i thought i would throw my situation out to yourselves as not getting much sympathy at work. Iv qualified as a staff nurse in Jan 09 in my PDR (apraisal) beginning of 2010 i advised i would like to do a mentorship course (mentoring students). All through that year I was advised no money and no places. Another PDR beginning of 2011 again i bought up i would like to do the course, 2 people have done this course this year and now suprise suprise no money. So looks like i probally wont get on it as it will go to next year and i want to be moved by then.

     

    When i spoke with my manager last week about the course the first thing she said was "when are you leaving?" i have also heard that they have a replacement nurse and i have not even left yet!! I told my manager i have 5 years to move it may not be quick as the house market does not seem to be moving. I spoke with my best friend and she also said well you will be leaving?? my point is that anybody could do a course and then leave trusts does that mean you should never be trained in anything?? OR are work correct and they shouldnt waste their money on me because i will be leaving in the future?? :sad: I want to progress in my position and the next step is the mentorship course.

     

    Anybody?? Lisa

     

     

    Hi. It seems that you are, however proving it will be difficult. Can you request in writing why you have not been put on the course ? The other side of it is the catch 22 thingy, there are cuts being slashed all over so to the managers / supervisor this could be a waste of public purse to spend on you. The main point I would like to make is what if this caused animosity towards you by colleagues, if you got the course and they did not and you were leaving ? I know I would be pretty miffed if someone got funded for a course just to leave. Sorry if this sounds like a poke in the eye, but sometimes if you have a light at the end of the tunnel ( your dream to move ) then smile, think positive and just aim for that.

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    If you had your own business, would you spend your money training someone who was going to leave, or would you spend that money on people who were staying (or appeared to be)?

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    Guest helene73

    Hi Lisa :)

    I am sorry to say that as a employer myself I would not fund further training infect I have a clause in my contacts saying if they leave after x amount of time they have to pay back the cost of the training harsh I know but it covers me as I don't see why others should benefit for training I have paid for without me getting my moneys worth!!! :)

     

     

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk :)

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    Guest cornish Busdriver

    Hiya Lisa.

    Just as helen and pesty said, even in my industry they wont put someone through training if they think that they will leave in the near future.

    Theres a clause in our contract that everyone sighs before training that if a person leave within a certain time they have to pay back the cost of training.

    I dont think you are being discriminated against, i think that they are just looking in the long term of things.

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    Guest Guest6899

    Hi, all thanks for your varied answers, Iv never said to colleagues and managment that i am leaving asap. My manager knew as i required references from her and with the current housing market i could be here still in a years time. Im not sure about the clause of paying back but again i would be willing to do this if the situation arose. I was recently taken on as the link infection control nurse and increased standards greatly on the unit and expecting me to contribute with training etc to continue to improve standards. I didnt say no im not willing to take on this role as its a new learing environment, why didnt they give that to somebody else if they were worried?? I am one of the few loyal workers there that goes above and beyond whats expected and i still do today but its not very evenly matched!!

     

    Sorry to sound bitter but i am very angry about the situation, but it sounds like i am in the minority.

    Lisa

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    Guest Guest6899
    Hi Lisa

    I'm pretty sure if you haven't given a date to leave yet then they have to treat you equally, but suppose may be difficult to prove thats why you didn't get on course?

    I have had the joy (not) of working with my replacement (although she is lovely!) for the last six months (before i even had a visa!) and now have only six shifts left thank god! My previous manager was no bother at all but got new one six months ago who brought my repalcement with her!It is hard to explain how awkward it made me feel, the constant 'so you'll be leaving once visa through'. NO i need to sell our flat, and eventually just said I would decide when I was leaving! Without a definite date to leave they certainly shouldn't be discriminating cos who knows why or when plans may change? Problem in this financial climate is that will be easy to explain that not enough study money to go around? Stick to your guns though, and brazen it out, it's your life to decide when you'll go! Are you in a union?

    Gill x

     

    Hi, yes im in the RCN was thinking about contacting them. I could understand if all of a sudden i decided to do the course but i have been waiting a year and a half. My visa only came through last month and when i first stated i wanted to do the course i hadnt even started applying for the visa!! Personally i also think its a case of "if your face fits".

    Lisa

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    Hi Lisa

     

    The other thought to have would be why put yourself through the course plus the stresses of moving when the course wouldnt probably be recognised over here. I have an ENB think its the 998???? did it quite a while ago and it makes not difference here to your practise/pay/employability here. Your nursing qualifications yes and any certificates in the way of degree, diploma, specialist certificates. I would chill out and enjoy your months/years in the UK and spend time planning your move and sorting things to move forward.

     

    Hope this helps

     

    Lindsey

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    Guest Guest6899
    Hi Lisa

     

    The other thought to have would be why put yourself through the course plus the stresses of moving when the course wouldnt probably be recognised over here. I have an ENB think its the 998???? did it quite a while ago and it makes not difference here to your practise/pay/employability here. Your nursing qualifications yes and any certificates in the way of degree, diploma, specialist certificates. I would chill out and enjoy your months/years in the UK and spend time planning your move and sorting things to move forward.

     

    Hope this helps

     

    Lindsey

     

    Hi Lindsey, yes it helps as i was worried that they thought that i couldnt be bothered to do other courses when in fact im happy to do them but they wont put me on them.

     

    Thanks Lisa

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    Guest cornish Busdriver
    Iv never said to colleagues and managment that i am leaving asap. My manager knew as i required references from her and with the current housing market i could be here still in a years time.[/QUOTE]

     

    It sounds like you are planning to leave, this is probally why your not getting the course.

    Try and look at it from your employers point of view, would you send someone on a corse that is planning to leave or give it to someone who is going to stay.

    Also dont forget all extra the resorces that would be used like covering work and shifts to give someone a corse that was planning to leave just wouldnt be viable or logical.

    I think its not just about the money it all the extra resorces that has to be taken into account as well.

    My company had just lost a major contract so stopped training people, why would they carry on training new people just for the new company to benifit from them, this could also be the case where your place of work cant see why you should have the corse if your planning to leave and use what you learnt on the course somewhere else.

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    When we were planning on emigrating my partners work knew of our plans as they provided references etc for him as part of our application. His boss, the IT Manager wanted my partner to go on a course and HR queried why he was being sent on it when he was going to leave (we had no leaving date at this point) and his boss said to HR "he is useful to me until the day he leaves" and HR approved it. At the end of the day my partners bosses were wonderful and really helpful because they valued my partner and his skills and abilities and were smart enough to realise that if he left earlier it would cost them thousands of pounds in consultants to do what he could do as part of his annual salary. So over 4 years later, both his bosses are on our UK email list and receive regular updates on what we are doing and we are still in touch.

     

    Now my story is completely different. I worked in a part-time admin role and I mentioned to my boss we were in the process of applying to emigrate after I had been there 10 or so months and she said she was thinking of applying to emigrate to NZ. A few months late I was called me into the CEO's office 2 weeks before my 12 months and fired me!! They said because I wanted to go to Australia they did not feel as though I was committed to the job. In reality they used it as an excuse to get rid of me and did it before I reached 12 months service so I could not make a claim.

     

    Moral of the story, there are some great employers and some c**p employers, some will take it well and support you some will use it against you.

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    If you're asking this from an employment law point of view, then no, based on the information you've provided, you're not being discriminated against. There might be more information that's pertinent that would throw a different light on things, but going off what you've written, then the employer isn't doing anything you could take them to an employment tribunal over unless elaw in the UK has changed dramatically in the three and a half years since we migrated.

    Discrimination (apart from bullying,, harassment and victimisation, which are dealt with separately) is based on various acts – equality, race relations, fair employment etc – and your circumstances wouldn't be covered. Outside of these acts, the determining factor would be reasonableness. In short, would it be reasonable or unreasonable for your employer to behave in this way? I'd say it would be unlikely that a tribunal would go for unreasonable. If you've alerted your employer to your intention to leave – regardless of whether it's next month or in five years' time – then it would be hard to show them as unreasonable when putting training spend where they feel they'll get the most benefit. You might have a case if there are two of you leaving and you're being treated less favourably, but even then there can be many factors that might mean it still isn't unfair.

    As for employees leaving soon after being trained, well employers aren't expected to have a crystal ball; they can only go off what they knew at the time (although many do try to recoup training costs as has already been mentioned).

    I'm a little surprised that you think this is unfair and while I think it's good that some employers do continue to train employees who have stated their intent to leave, I wouldn't criticise those that don't.

     

    Jim

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