Guest fozdog

HELP!! Information on migrating from the UK (painters and decorators/tradesmen)

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    Guest fozdog

    Hey all my names Tom.

    I spent last year traveling Australia and absolutely loved the place and now want to look seriously into migrating here permanently, specifically Adelaide. I am trying to gather as much information as possible but it all seems incredibly daunting are difficult.

    I am 22 years old and a painter and decorator with around 4 years experience but no NVQ's etc but my work is of good standard and my currant boss will give me a great reference. I see i can get my skills assessed by the ASA has anybody done this? how difficult was it?

    I have another 1 year WHV visa so the plan is to get with a painting firm and look to get sponsored to stay longer but even this seems a headache. Have any of you been sponsored? and was it relatively straight forward?

    I know you all probably get sick of the same questions coming in but there's so much information out there i don't know what to believe.

    So if you can just tell me of your experience and what exactly i would need to do it would be much appreciated, or maybe some of you are painters and decorators over in Adelaide who could help me out.

    I will be arriving in Adelaide in a weeks time and have a years visa so need to get the ball rolling reasonably quickly.

     

    Thanks a lot

    Tom

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    Guest shella_n

    Hi Tom

     

    I would say your quickest route to PR would be getting sponsored and I see that's your plan. That's what we did too. To get sponsored you could go for an ENS visa or RSMS. We got ENS so can't tell u much about rsms but you can find out more on DIACs website. To get ENS u either need to have been working in your job in Australia for 2 years or get your skills assessed by the relevant authority. Visa cost was around $3000.

     

    Not sure what the likelihood's of you finding a sponsored job but I was speaking to an expat painter the other day and he said he had heaps of work.

     

    Feel free to ask mote questions if there's anything specific u want to know about ENS etc

     

    Good luck to you

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    Guest fozdog

    Thanks for your reply shella

    Yeh had another look into things and the ENS is around $3k with around $3k so have my skills assessed and then they like you to have at least 2 years experience of working in oz, so i think the best option is to get an temporary ENS (Long-Stay business) for around $1k along with the skills assessment course, this would allow me stay temporally for 3 years and get the work experience before applying for the ENS.

    So many different visa's out there ha, did you use an agent to do all this for you? and if so how much do they charge?

    Thanks for your time shella

     

    PS - if there are any decorators on this forum who need a hand over the summer i will be arriving in 2 weeks time!! i understand you might not be able to take me on full-time but the skills assessment course would need to come out and watch me work so if there was any work available for me to achieve this it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    Tom

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    Guest shella_n

    The short stay visa you are referring to is a 457 not an ENS. If u do go for ENS you either have to have a skills assessment OR have worked in job in Aus for 2 years - not both.

     

    That sounds very exoensive to get your skills tested - ours was only about $300.

     

    Good luck with it all

     

    Ps - didnt use an agent - did it all myself

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    Guest fozdog

    thanks shella

    yeh i was under the impression to get the 457 i would need to show qualifications and by gaining the skills assessment that would work but if i could just apply for ENS that would be great!

    i found this website https://www.australianskillassessments.com/index.php they help people who are time served to show there skills and then gain the AGF3 qualification it does seem expensive though.

    can you remember who you used?

    thanks

    tom

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    Hello Tom

     

    There are several different aspects to your question, which you probably don't realise as yet but you will realise this by the time I have finished with you, my son!

     

    As you are aware, you need to get an AQF III certificate if possible. You need to get the AQF III because you need a positive skills assessment from Trades Recognition Australia after that. Getting both of these things into place will give you the maximum number of options for possible skilled visas later, because I suspect that you will be eligible for several of the skilled visas later on.

     

    You need the flexibility of having as many options as possible because it is becoming tricky to get skilled visas for Australia and it will be harder still from 1st July 2012. Therefore, with you, the best thing is to open as many doors for you as possible and to hope that a visa application can be submitted before 1st July 2012.

     

    So, first things first. You need an AQF III and you have been talking to my old mucker Darren Le'ake at ASA. ASA is a UK-based company. Darren was living in England though I don't know whether he still does so. He is an Aussie. He does the AQF IIIs via the Master Builders Association in Queensland, I believe.

     

    As Darren has probably explained (and if he hasn't his website is the best of its type for describing the process) you would be doing the AQF III via RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning.) For this, you need to do a paper assessment, based on your past work etc. After that, you need to do a practical assessment as well - which is where the Master Builders of QLD come in because they "own" the assessors that Darren uses.

     

    When Darren organises AQF III assessments for people in the UK, the assessor comes to the UK from Australia, which is why it is a pricey business. Plainly, it is not so expensive if the assessor only needs to travel around Australia. I think that Darren organises for the practical assessments to take place in a classroom type of environment, normally. Obviously, though, this means that the space has to be hired.

     

    There is another company called ACTS/TradeTraining, who are based in QLD:

     

    http://www.tradesrecognition.com/

     

    They started doing the AQF IIIs in the UK early in 2008 and then Darren followed soon afterwards. A British friend of mine is a guy called Shaun. He is also a Painter & Decorator, like you. In 2008, Shaun was 30 and he had been doing painting & decorating for 12 years but he had no formal qualifications and wanted to emigrate to Australia. He got an AQF III through ACTS/TradeTraining even though he knew about Darren as well.

     

    Darren was charging quite a bit less than ACTS but I think Shaun chose ACTS because their AQF III assessor was based in the UK and he went to whichever property Shaun was working on at the time in order to do the practical assessment. I think Shaun said that doing this was quicker and more convenient for him than waiting for someone to come from Australia and then losing a couple of days' paid work in order to do the practical assessment in an artificial environment. I can't remember the exact details but I think it was roughly along these lines. Shaun decided it would be worth paying more for ACTS and he said that they provided an absolutely excellent service, though I've heard very good reports about Darren's service as well.

     

    I think it would be worth your while to contact both companies and find out how they would tackle the practical assessment, plus what it would cost, given that you and the assessor will both be in Australia.

     

    There is also a TAFE (a tertiary education college) in Brisbane called SkilsTech and they also do these RPL AQF III assessments:

     

    http://www.skillstech.tafe.qld.gov.au/trade_programs_and_courses/skills_recognition.html#2

     

    TAFE is pronounced Tayfe - rhyming with 'Safe' - not Taffy, though I live in the UK and I always get it wrong! When I'm talking to an Aussie, I always end up correcting myself because they have no idea what a "Taffy" is! Plus I feel like a plonker for getting it wrong!

     

    The TAFEs are run by the State Government in each State so SkillsTech might be cheaper than either of the privately-owned companies I have mentioned above, though you would have to go to Brisbane if you want SkillsTech to do the practical assessment for you. Because they are a TAFE, they already have classrooms and workshops so I'd recommend talking to SkillsTech, getting a price from them and then seeing how hard you can haggle with the other two!

     

    Also, there must be at least one TAFE in Adelaide that teaches the AQF III course in Painting and Decorating, though they don't necessarily do RPL assessments as well. Nonetheless, if it were me, I'd ask the local TAFEs as well because they must have AQF III assessors and none of this is flippin' rocket science! I don't know the names of any of the TAFEs around Adelaide but no doubt Google can help!

     

    A fourth possibility might be Silver Trowel in Perth, though I'm not sure about them because they don't teach Paining & Decorating. They are not a TAFE. Silver Trowel is privately owned by a guy called Jon Skerratt. He might know one or two AQF III assessors in Perth who can assess a Painter & Decorator. I know a Plasterer who obtained his AQF III via RPL from Silver Trowel, so Mr Skerratt definitely understands the process. Ergo it might be worth phoning Silver Trowel as well, though again, you'd have to go to Perth for the practical assessment. The Plasterer lived in the UK but he went to Perth, to Silver Trowel. He said that turned out to be the cheapest way for him to do it.

     

    http://silvertrowel.com.au/

     

    If all else fails, dear old Alan Collett might be able to help! He's not old, actually! He's about 5 years younger than me. Alan owns Go Matilda, a migration agency whose HQ is in Melbourne because Alan lives there. I'm 99% sure that Alan knows someone round Melbourne who could help to get an AQF III for you and Melbourne is closer than both Brisbane and Perth:

     

    http://www.gomatilda.com/contact.cfm

     

    I think it is undoubtedly the case that it is becoming desirable for tradies to have formal qualifications, so several providers are offering AQF IIIs via RPL. I merely don't know all of their names. Therefore I definitely would find the websites for the local TAFEs in SA and see whether any of them do it.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Hi again, Tom

     

    Having told you as much as I can think of about how to get an AQF III, the next thing to consider is whether the AQF III would enable you to get a positive skills assessment from Trades Recognition Australia as well:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/p/painting-trades-worker.htm

     

    Nowadays, you are a "Painting Trades Worker," according to ANZSCO. The Aussie Government have spent the last 3 years making it increasingly difficult for people to get skilled visas for Australia because the demand still outstrips the supply of visa places by a substantial number. To make it more difficult, the Government keeps raising the bar.

     

    I'm not a migration agent and so I'm not in close touch with the details. DIAC have been saying that aplicants for skilled visas must have "recent, relevant experience" in their nominated occupations. I'm not sure whether a year of travelling around Oz would stuff you up with getting a positive skills assessment from TRA:

     

    http://www.deewr.gov.au/Skills/Programs/SkillsAssess/TRA/Pages/default.aspx

     

    You need to study the TRA website with great care in order to establish whether or not you would be able to get a positive skills assessment from TRA. If you are in doubt then you should ask a Registered Migration Agent to help and advise. In your shoes, Go Matilda would be a good choice because they are very reasonably-priced compared to some of their competitors and they are also very experienced and competent, unlike some of their competitors.

     

    Regardless of which visa might be chosen eventually, it would stand you in extremely good stead to get a positive skills assessment from TRA before you apply for any of the visas.

     

    In the eyes of the Aussie Government, you are an attractive potential permanent migrant because you are very young. Therefore you would probably be able to work (and pay tax) for another 40 years before you retire. Plus you're probably very fit and likely to remain healthy! (I know it is like sizing up a horse but these are the things Governments look for!)

     

    However Australia only grants about 113,000 skilled Permanent Residence visas per year. China, Australia and India are rapidly becoming the new economic super-powers in the world but out of the three, Australia is the only one that has a Welfare State and doesn't have any significant problems of corrupt officials. Plus the official language is English, which most people can speak.

     

    So the Aussie Government is battling with the fact that far more people want skilled visas for Australia than Australia is prepared to grant every year and you are not the only potential jewel in their crown. Because of this, I think it is important to try to keep as many visa doors open for you as possible. To do that, a positive skills assessment from TRA is almost essential, I reckon.

     

    Here endeth this bit so I'll desist with this bit.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Gollywobbler, once again, thank you for your time and contribution here. I am always amazed at the depth and wealth of your knowledge and that you give your time to write such detailed replies to individuals.

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    Hi again, Tom

     

    At the risk of boring you, I think it is worth describing the experience that my friend Shaun has described to me.

     

    Shaun was 30 when he embarked on the process of getting a visa in 2008. He was not married and had no children though he did have a girlfriend called Julia who went to Oz with him. They had both had Working Holiday visas and Julia wanted to go to Perth, so that was decided.

     

    My sister Elaine lives in Perth. I got to know Shaun via another forum and I was busily helping him. Then Elaine and I were chatting on the phone one day (I live in the UK.) I mentioned Shaun and said he is a Painter & Decorator who was heading for Perth. Elaine said, "Ask him to come straight round to my house as soon as he arrives!" It turned out that she had spent 2 years trying to find someone to redecorate her house. She said that lots of leaflets dropped through the letter box but she was suspicious of those because the people could have been Bodgitt & Leggitt. (Or worse, Fly By Night who might nick the silver!) She said she had tried dozens of reputable sounding companies but none of them were interested in redecorating a house. They all wanted to do hospitals, offices, schools or new housing estates - not just one house.

     

    I said I thought Shaun would probably be pretty good because he had recently obtained an AQF III. That fact encouraged Elaine, which I think is quite important.

     

    So I approached Shaun and he said he would gladly go round and see what needed doing to Elaine's house and promised that no matter how much of a mess she thought it was in, decoratively, he would be able to put it right. The house had suffered from 10 years of Elaine's two sons being small and having grubby paws, plus our ancient Mama lives with Elaine. Mum is in a wheelchair and she is not a very good charioteer, so the walls and doorways either had grubby paw-prints on them or the paint had chipped off because Mum had crashed her wheelchair into the surfaces. (Shaun was adorable - when I explained this, he said he had seen worse and fixed worse, so we were not to worry about it and there was no need to be apologetic about it!)

     

    When Shaun reached Perth, it transpired that he couldn't work on Elaine's house legitimately unless he did a half-day course and got some sort of site-safety card. That is only a half-day course and I think doing that was included in the price he had paid to ACTS. So he got the card.

     

    Then it turned out that if Elaine wanted to instruct him directly and pay him directly, he needed to go to evening classes at the local TAFE one evening a week for 6 weeks so that he could become a self-employed, independent contractor. I don't know what this six-week course involved but it is probably compulsory in every state.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/p/painting-trades-worker.htm

     

    If you click on the link above and scroll to the bottom of the page, it provides a link to the Master Builders of SA. I think it would be welll worth your while to study their website and contact them if need be, to find out what you would have to do in order to become a self-employed, independent contractor. In Perth, it turned out to be important because the house insurance wouldn't cover Shaun if he had an accident unless he had the right bits of paper and the insurance wouldn't cover the house unless he had the right bits of paper as well. You can do DIY in your own home but if you pay a third party then he has to have the right bits of paper in order to satisfy the house insurers.

     

    Shaun never wanted to work for anyone else. He did so for a while but he decided that being someone else's employee was not paying him enough plus he wasn't used to working for A. Company. He always wanted to be self-employed, find his own work and do his own thing so that he could keep the profits from the work.

     

    Elaine is married to an Aussie, whose family all live in Perth, plus Elaine has lived there for over 30 years so she has a lot of friends. Her friends and in-laws admired the spectacularly good job that Shaun had done for Elaine and they all had similar problems - the companies don't want to do one-off houses. So Elaine's friends and relies wanted Shaun to do their houses as well, which helped to kick-start a new business for Shaun but he also lived near an Irish pub in Perth. He got a lot of other business via this pub.

     

    Shaun was a Permanent Resident of Australia from Day One. In 2009, he obtained a subclass 176 visa, sponsored by the State Government of WA:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/general-skilled-migration/176/

     

    This was by far the best visa option for Shaun because it meant that he would not be tied to any particular employer, even in the unlikely event that he had managed to find a willing and able employer from the UK. He has an AQF III and got a positive skills assessment from TRA, so it was much quicker and more efficient just to get him a sc 176 visa next.

     

    After about 9 months, Shaun & Julia got bored with Perth. It is a brilliant place for couples with families but the night-life is not exciting for young people without children! Also, Shaun said he thought the pay was pretty poxy in WA. So after about 9 months, he and Julia put all their possessions in their car and spent 3 days driving to Sydney. They soon found work and somewhere to live and the last I heard, they both adore Sydney.

     

    They've been in Oz for just over 2 years now. I think it was worth Shaun's getting the ticket to be an independent contractor in Perth because even if he's had to do that again in NSW, in his first few months (in Perth) he found out about all that side of things and he also discovered the Aussie climate!

     

    When it became really hot during Shaun's first summer, he was painting the outside woodwork of Elaine's house. The paint was drying almost before it was applied but he was in charge of buying the paint from a bulder's merchant. He had the tickets to prove that he was a genuine tradie etc and apparently the outdoor paint in Australia is much stronger paint than in the UK. The stuff doesn't just take one look at the sun and flake off. Apparently the builder's merchant people and Shaun between them worked out what sort of paint to get for the outside of the house etc. Additionally, because he was being directly employed by Elaine, Shaun and Elaine were able to agree that he would get the best type of paint, not the cheapest type. He's got an AQF III in the subject so I would expect him to know what type of paint to choose.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest fozdog

    WOW

    Gill Thank You

    I think you just about covered everything there. I can see its going to be a long process but you have listed every step needed to make the move and great to hear shaun's story, shows somebody in a similar situation can do it.

    I think because i haven't ran my own business yet i would find it difficult taking that step along with organizing the visa's at this time.

    So i think my best bet is to get with a company as soon as possible, get the AQF III so if needed they can come and view my work while in oz and then look into sponsorship through the company on a 457 visa to gain the experience of working in oz.

    Would a 457 visa be reasonably easy to obtain if i had the AQF III and TRA along with a sponsor?

    So i am going to run through all the websites you have given me and defiantly get in touch with TAFE, a friend of mine is in Adelaide now who is a plumber and he had to go to TAFE once a week to bring his qualifications up to ozzy standard so i am hoping they do a similar thing for us painters in SA.

    Anyway i cant thank you enough gill

    Thanks

    Tom

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    Hi Tom

     

    Is this coming year going to be your first year on a Working Holiday visa or were you on a WHV last year as well? did you have a WHV last year as well? I ask because I am wondering how much time we have in hand in order to get you sorted out?

     

    You can be self-employed on a WH Visa but I agree with you. I wouldn't recommend trying to start up and run your own business just yet. You need to work for a couple of local employers and get used to the business of being a Painter & Decorator in Oz for the time being.

     

    Your friend the Plumber can definitely help you. In Oz (and maybe in the UK) Plumbing and Decorating are both thread as being parts of the construction industry. I'm female and I've only ever worked in an office. Your Plumber friend will know how to get you a construction site safety card for SA and he can proably help to identify a TAFE that teaches Painting & Decorating locally, whch TAFE might also either do these RPL assessments or know someone locally who does them.

     

    With a bit of luck, the Plumber will also be able to help you to get a job.

     

    As you know, if you are on a WH visa, you are restricted to working for the same employer for six unbroken months only, For the minute, though, focus on finding the first employer. Nobody is going to agree to hire a youngster in six months time, so I wouldn't try to think more than six months ahead at this stage.

     

    You've asked whether you would be able to get sponsorship for a temporary 457 visa? It does sometimes happen to people on WHVs and it is more likely to happen for WHV holders in the skilled trades rather than in the professions. What often happens is that a guy or girl has just graduated with a degree in something obscure like Quantum Physics, then they get a WHV and go out to Oz. They can't get the sort of work that someone with a degree in Quantum Physics would want (I'm being vague vecause I have no idea what Quantum Physics is! I've merely heard of it!) If one is going to hire a young graduate straight out of university, it will be 12-24 months before s/he is any use to the business, so nobody is interested in hiring a young graudate for 6 months only. These are the youngsters who get peeved because they wouldn't be any use on a construction site either, so they end up working in bars or McJunk outlets, which isn't remotely satisfying intellectually, obviously!

     

    So I think you have a pre-existing skill, it is a trade skill and an employer wouldn't be put off by the fact that he couldn't be sure of having you for more than six months. If you get friendly with an employer, it may well be possible to persuade him to sponsor you for a 457 visa, Don't worry about that too much to start with because if you get get a job and get friendly with the employer, even if he can't sponsor you for a 457 himself, he might know another Painter & Decorator who can.

     

    With 457 visas, ideally you want to work for a company with at least 6 other employees. The reason for this has to do with the details for 457 visas:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-workers/sbs/

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/books9.htm

     

    The Trades Unions are powerful and militant in Australia, particularly the CFMEU:

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction,_Forestry,_Mining_and_Energy_Union

     

    The Unions are not keen on 457 visas because they suspect that employers try to use them as a way of getting cheap labour. To counter this objection, the Government requires either that the employer must be training a couple of yogng Aussies as wel or the employer has to pay a capital sum to a local TAFE or something, so that at least he is paying towards training young Aussies even if he is not training them himelf. I'm very uncertain about the details but I think this is the rough gist of it, You need to read the details about the visa and Booklet 9 as well. I've given you the links for them, above.

     

    As they say, the devil is n the detail and with visas, the detail is in the Forms for the visa! So it is worth glancing through the stuff on the DIAC website, plus Booklet 9 PLUS the employer's forms, because ideally you want an employer who will not have any problem with the stuff required of him in the Forms. The website gives you the links for the relevant Forms. There is a brief overview of DIAC's requirements for the employer here:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/skilled-workers/sbs/eligibility-employer.htm

     

    But don't forget to have a look at the Booklet and the Forms as well!

     

    Sandy & Rhchard Coates in Adelaide are worth bearing in mind, just in case you need their help. Sandy is a recruitment agent, trading as Global Tradesearch:

     

    http://www.globaltradesearch.com.au/services.html

     

    http://www.globaltradesearch.com.au/contact.html

     

    Sandy is quite good at finding Aussie employers who will agree to sponsor overseas migrants. Her success is partly due to the fact that her husband Richard Coates is a Registered Migration Agent, trading as Celtic Migration:

     

    http://celticmigration.com.au/

     

    Most employers in Oz have no more idea about visas for Australia than I have about visas for the UK - ie zero! Sandy & Richard make a good team because between them, they can offer an employer a "one stop shop." Sandy will find the right employee and then Richard will organise the visa for both the Aussie employer and the immigrant employee. By making this promise, they are able to remove a lot of the fears in the mind of an employer who has never sponsored anyone for a visa before, hasn't a clue how to do it, can't justify wasting hours of his own time trying to understand what DIAC want - the employer can't be earning a profit whilst he is bogged down in red tape and so forth.

     

    It is quite understandable that an employer will have these sorts of fears so, left to his own devices, most employers want an employee who does not need their help in order to get a visa. Sandy & Richard are able to overcome a lot of this instinctive unwillingness.

     

    That said, I've heard that they are not cheap. I'm not sure whether Sandy is allowed to charge the prospective employee anything but she more or less insists that Richard must act for the employer and the employee on the visa, so the couple do see to it that they earn their money somehow.

     

    Because it would be expensive to do it via Sandy & Richard, I'd advise you to try to find your own employer by yourself if you can. It does make sense to get an RMA to deal with a 457 visa and they do usually act for both the employer and the employee, but I suspect that Go Matilda would charge less than Richard.

     

    If you manage to find an employer who has sponsored several people before then the chances are that the employer knows an RMA who has acted for him before. If so then leave it to the employer's RMA to act or both of you on the 457 visa. I've never dealt with trying to get a 457 visa for anyone because I'm not a migration agent but the employer's end sounds more fiddly to me than the employee's end of things. so an RMA who knows all about the employer and his business is the obvious Agent to choose.

     

    I think the DIAC have a Policy with 457 visas that the employer must pay the employer's own share of the statutory costs that DIAC charge. Plenty of wannabe immigrants are not above trying to bribe the employer and blah blah. The Government will get it in the neck from the Trades Unions if they allow that, so DIAC have to be seen to be fairly strict about it! The Aussie employer is supposed to be the one with "the problem" - ie, he can't fill the vacancy from the local workforce, so he needs to hire a foreigner instead and to sponsor the foreigner for a visa. The employer is the one with the alleged problem therefore it is reasonable to suppose that he won't mind paying for the visa. His business needs the help, after all. As you can see, there is a fair amount of politicking in the background about 457 visas but if the employer doesn't know about that, don't alarm him by mentioning it!

     

    Also, you still need to start with an AQF III and a TRA skills assessment first and you want it to be the proper TRA pre-migration skills assessment for permanent migration. You do NOT want the JobReady thing which is aimed at graduate ex-International Students who have done the student course in Australia but do not have much hands-on experience of doing the job.

     

    This bit is important because the TRA assessment proves to DIAC that you genuinely are a skilled tradesman and not just a mate of the employer! If an Aussie employer can get by with a foreigner who doesn't even have an AQF III and a TRA skills assessment, why shouldn't the employer hire an equally unskilled (apparently) young Aussie instead? If you were 45 and had been a Painter & Decorator for over 20 years, had been running your own business in another country etc then there is room for manoevre with DIAC. In that situation, one can argue that this wonderfully experienced foreigner can help to train young Aussies as well as doing the job.

     

    However with someone as young as you, one can't use this sort of argument, hence I think it is foolish to try to approach DIAC unless you already have an AQF III and a TRA skills assessment. That way, DIAC can't bicker and like any other Government Department, not giving them a chance to bicker is a good start!

     

    Please see my next post........

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    .........

     

    Also, it is not unknown for an employer to sponsor someone for a 457 visa and then there is an economic downturn. If that happens and the employer has to start laying people off, DIAC expect him to dump the 457 workers before he dumps anyone else. Right now, the British and the American Governments are both whingeing that unless the French, Germans and Greeks sort themselves out quickly, there is going to be the mother & father of an economic Depression in the USA, in the UK and in most countries in Europe. If the worst comes to the worst at this end, I don't think it would cause recessions in China, Australia and India but their economies would slump somewhat. The Chinese economy has already started to slow down because they rely on exporting a helluva lot of goods to the consumer markets in the West. If there is no money in he West, Western consumers won't buy Chinese-made goods. That would have some knock-on effect in Australia, for sure. Australia's population is only 22 million souls. They aren't going to buy all the consumer goods that would otherwise be sold to the West. The population in the USA is over 300 million. In he UK it is about 63 million. I don't know the population sizes in Europe as well but it is pretty obvious that the Aussies wouldn't take up the slack in Chinese-made goods.

     

    If you get a 457 visa and you get laid off, you would be given a reasonable chance to find another employer. However, somebody who has had a fright on a 457 visa doesn't usually want another one, so everyone will try to move heaven & earth to get immediate Permanent Residency for them instead. If you already have a TRA skills assessment then you could get an ENS or an RSMS visa very quickly and you could get a Bridging Visa whilst it is processed. If you do not have a TRA skills assessment, you may well have no other option but to try for another employer on the basis of a temporary 457 visa only and if you don't succeed then you would be told to leave Australia within 4-6 months. Particularly because of your youth and relative inexperience, Australia will not die without you. Therefore I think it is essential to try to protect you as much as possible and the best way to do that is for you to get a TRA skills assessment asap.

     

    ALL THAT SAID!!!! A 457 visa is not necessarily the best way for you to go. It is impossible to get a 457 visa without a willing, able and eligible employer. If you have an AQF III plus the full TRA skills assessment, you would be eligible for a GSM visa instead. That would not involve an employer at the visa stage. If you have a GSM visa then you can just compete for employment on the same terms as any other Aussie.

     

    For this reason, I don't think you should put all of your eggs in one basket by relying on the idea of a 457 visa alone. I think what we need to do with you is to "groom" you so that you would be eligible for aa many different visas as possible. For which the lynch-pin is the TRA skills assessment.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest fozdog

    Hey Gill

    Yeah this is my 2nd WHV, last year i worked for a removals firm for 3 months before working for a painter in Adelaide,who im still in contact with but he was in his late 50's, worked for himself and was semi-retired so he didn't have the work to take me on full-time but he may know a company. I then worked in the country on a farm for 3 months to be eligible for my 2nd visa and returned to the UK in may this year for my mums 50th and cousins wedding, over the summer here i have been back with the decorator i worked with before i went to Australia, so i have worked for him for over 4 years in total. So yeah im not sure if that will hinder my chances of being in the trade for the 12months before applying for the visa but ill just have to see.

    I found this in TAFE SA http://www.tafesa.edu.au/xml/profile/profile_OCC47.aspx

    It only offers Cert II though so i don't think it will be much good to me.

    I have a great reference from the company i worked with here in the UK and i have emailed a few of them sites just go gather information on my next steps for the AQF III.

    So i guess ill just find a painting firm as soon as possible, i land next week so hopefully ill have work withing 3-4 weeks and then aim to get the AQF III within the 6 months i am allowed to work for them.

    Then hopefully that will all be fine and ill be in touch about my next steps..

    Thanks a lot Gill

    Tom

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    Hi Tom

     

    Har! Were you a Furniture Removalist?! The new ANZSCO is either less interesting than the old ASCO or (probably more truthfully) I haven't been bored enough to browse through ANZSCO in detail as yet. I used to find that ASCO was better than the Beano on a wet Sunday afternoon in the winter in the UK.

     

    ASCO was worth a guinea a minute, I can tell you! My Aussie nephew was 14 at the time I found out about somebody called a Furniture Removalist. I wondered whether Peter would aspire to a career as a Furniture Removalist.

     

    Then, in the ASCO Index, it mentioned Garbologist. I was intrigued. I wondered whether it has become possible to do a degree in Garbology nowadays? That would fit one up for a career as a Politician, I reckon. Garbologists turned out to be disappointing. A Garbologist just rides around on a dustcart apparently.

     

    The one everyone loved was Prostitute. ASCO intoned solemnly that it is a good idea for a Prostitute to have an AQF II because this would improve her skills at "social intercourse" with her clients, apparently. Really? How did the authors of ASCO know that?!

     

    I did gather that, in Australia, one would hire a Gravedigger to bury the Prime Minister. (A Painter & Decorator needs formal qualifications but a Prime Minister doesn't, according to ASCO - at least that bit was accurate, anyway!) Who on earth dreams up this nonsense and what does it cost?! The UK is just as bad. We have something called the SOC - which stands for Skilled Occupations Classification or something similar, I would guess. The SOC is standard throughout the EU, apparently. I do trust that Eurocrat is listed in the SOC because it bluddy well should be. Commonsense is not one of the essential requirements for that.

     

    It might be worth going to see the Painter & Decorator tutor at the local TAFE. He might be an AQF III assessor even if he is only required to teach AQF II to the students. If one simply phones or e-mails, there is no great incentive to help. It is much harder to say "no" to a person you like who has taken the trouble to come and see you, in my experience.

     

    It sounds like you might well be able to secure employer sponsorship during the course of the coming year. Investing all your energies in one city might well prove to have been a very shrewd move on your own part.

     

    Please keep in touch and let me know how it goes?

     

    Many thanks

     

    Gill

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    Guest fozdog

    Hey Gill

    Yes i was a 'Furniture Removalist', i worked for a big company called International Transport Services (they loved me by the way and wanted me to stay but unfortunately there not crying out for removalist ha), this played a part in me loving oz; it was the most laid back and at times 'slack' job i have ever had. We would travel in the truck for hours at times, this was great as i got to see almost everywhere in SA; and then we would do a little bit of work and occasionally we would finish a job by mid-day and go to a colleagues house and play xbox for about 3 hours haha (boss non the wiser). I also helped move plenty of the Brits in who had emigrated and was always given a tip! haha.

    Saying that i think all the jobs i had were reasonably laid back even the farming was great fun, the farmers son actually had his own plane so we were flying in that a ,it was awesome.

    Australia is just a great place to live imo.

    I did get to see a fair bit of the country though, i hired a car and drove to Melbourne along the ocean road which was fantastic, i stayed in Brisbane for a few weeks and a couple of weeks in Sydney also.

     

    Haha garbology, i wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of qualification available or you have to get haha, just like painting its all experience based a book cant teach you how to paint you have just got to give it a go and be taught first hand. Besides my local colleges don't even do and NVQ in painting lol.

    But a qualification in 'prostitution' comon your having me on there gill haha

    Your right its all nonsense!

     

    So why are you so sure i could secure employer sponsorship?; it would have to be in painting and decorating of course? would working in Adelaide almost the whole year help me out?

    But yes ill get in touch with TAFE and fingers crossed get the AQFIII and be in touch!

    Thanks Gill

    Tom

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    Gill,

     

    A couple of years ago I had a lot of dealings with SOC codes and if I remember off the top of my head it is Single Occupation Code. That list is quite an eye opener - the one that always made me chuckle was the occupation of Boner :tongue:

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    Gill,

     

    A couple of years ago I had a lot of dealings with SOC codes and if I remember off the top of my head it is Single Occupation Code. That list is quite an eye opener - the one that always made me chuckle was the occupation of Boner :tongue:

     

    Har har! Is a Boner a Politician by another name? The pollies in the UK are making a foolproof job of filleting the British economy and the entire population of the UK (except themselves, of course) as we speak. They are definitely Boners.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Hi Tom

     

    I am definitely not kidding about the idea that ASCO thought one would make a better prostitute if one had an AQF II. The preferable subject for the AQF II was not stated but maybe there is an AQF II course in "conversation skills?" Failing that, basic literacy might do, I suppose? I don't suppose it is possible to get an AQF II in "Skills with an Abacus," even though that might be useful for counting the shekels.

     

    http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/free.nsf/Lookup/A86A0162E6F672DFCA256ADB001D10D4/$File/asco.pdf

     

    The ASCO "Dictionary" as it was called is above. The Index is at the back and "Prostitute or Escort" is on Page 554. The page numbers are given in each page of the document itself. The Adobe page numbering is not reliable because that works according to the size of one's computer screen. The entry says:

    8319-27 Prostitute or Escort

    Sex Worker

     

    Provides clients with social companionship or sexual services.

     

    Skill Level:

    The entry requirement for this occupation is completion of

    compulsory secondary education or higher qualification.

     

    Tasks Include:

    § provides sexual services

    § accompanies clients to meals, places of entertainment or

    other outings

    § may use sexual language

     

    Specialisations:

    Telephone Sex Worker

     

    ASCO was first published in about 1995. Apparently when it was new Parliament had to ratify it and formally adopt it or something. Loads of people say that dozens of MPs volunteered to conduct the skills testing for this occupation.

     

    Prostitution is legal in some or all of the main mining towns in Australia. I've always wanted to visit Kalgoorlie because apparently there are legalised brothels in Kalgoorlie. I imagine something like the Wild West films that we've all seen. My Aussie bro in law was scathing when I went to Perth for a holiday in February one year and said I wanted to visit Kalgoorlie. He said, "You're melting in Perth, right next to the coast and the constant sea-breeze. At this time of year, it is much hotter in Kalgoorlie and there are no breezes there. Anyway the only things to see are miners and prostitutes, so forget it. If you want to visit Kalgoorlie, come back in the winter one year." I felt chastened and abandoned the idea of visiting Kalgoorlie for fear of offending Neil.

     

    ANZSCO is less interesting on the subject. ANZSCO says:

     

    UNIT GROUP 4518 OTHER PERSONAL SERVICE WORKERS

     

    This unit group covers Personal Service Workers not elsewhere classified.

    It includes Civil Celebrants, Hair or Beauty Salon Assistants, Sex Workers or Escorts, Body Artists, First Aid Trainers and Religious Assistants.

     

    Indicative Skill Level:

    Most occupations in this unit group have a level of skill commensurate with the qualifications and experience outlined below.

     

    In Australia:

    AQF Certificate II or III (ANZSCO Skill Level 4)

     

    In New Zealand:

    NZ Register Level 2 or 3 qualification (ANZSCO Skill Level 4)

     

    At least one year of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualifications listed above. In some instances relevant experience and/or on-the-job training may be required in addition to the formal qualification.

     

    Registration or licensing may be required.

     

    As you can see, a Prostitute without at least a year's "relevant experience" needs the minimum of an AQF II instead, nowadays. I have no relevant experience so it appears that I would have to get an AQF II. I would definitely need the "on-the-job training" and all!

     

    For the actual occupation, AZSCO says:

     

    451813 SEX WORKER OR ESCORT

     

    Alternative Title:

    Prostitute

     

    Provides clients with sexual services or social companionship.

     

    Skill Level: 5

     

    Specialisations:

    Dominatrix

    Telephone Sex Worker

     

    I assume that a Dominatrix provides "social companionship."

     

    Trust me, kiddo. There is clearly a heckuva lot to learn about it all and most of us are just fumbling amateurs, obviously...... However, it is good to know that the Government of such an advanced country does insist that Prostitutes should be properly educated, I always think. They are clearly most concerned to ensure that a Voter should not waste his/her money on buying a service that turns out not to be of properly "merchantable quality."

     

    On another note, I'd say that your sponsorship prospects are promising because by basing yourself in Adelaide, you have got to know a lot of useful people in the area and Painter & Decorator is on the State Migration Plan for SA, so the Government of SA also believes that your skills would be useful in their State.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

     

    PS - you guys could have been reading ASCO instead of playing with xboxes!

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