Guest waterboy

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    Guest waterboy

    A little background, I am a British Citizen, my sister and mother live in Australia (sister is a citizen). I currently live in Cyprus with my wife (whose mother and stepfather also live in Australia PR) we have no children but are looking for a way to join the rest of our family. I understand that it may not be possible immediately and it could be something I have to work towards but I have no idea where to start.

    I have had private schooling winning a scholarship to attend one of the famous boys schools in the UK, I really wish I had kept up with my friends from there as they always say it's not what you know but who you know, oh well.

    Also although I started a biomedical science degree, I only did 3 years of the course and didn't complete it this was from 1998 - 2001

    My occupation is a Reverse Osmosis desalination Operator. As anyone any ideas, thank you so much for taking the time to read:notworthy:

     

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    Check the occupations in demand list and see what comes up.

     

    Would post links but am not able to for some reason. Google "skilled independent" and follow the links.

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    A little background, I am a British Citizen, my sister and mother live in Australia (sister is a citizen). I currently live in Cyprus with my wife (whose mother and stepfather also live in Australia PR) we have no children but are looking for a way to join the rest of our family. I understand that it may not be possible immediately and it could be something I have to work towards but I have no idea where to start.

    I have had private schooling winning a scholarship to attend one of the famous boys schools in the UK, I really wish I had kept up with my friends from there as they always say it's not what you know but who you know, oh well.

    Also although I started a biomedical science degree, I only did 3 years of the course and didn't complete it this was from 1998 - 2001

    My occupation is a Reverse Osmosis desalination Operator. As anyone any ideas, thank you so much for taking the time to read:notworthy:

     

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    Hi Waterboy

     

    Let's start with the easy option. Do you reckon that both you and your wife would count as the Remaining Relative in your respective families, please?

     

    The link is below but before I paste that, the important thing to understand with the Family Stream in visa law is that it is not aimed at you - the prospective immigrant! The reason for allowing reliies to immigrate from outside Australia is so as to improve life for the Aussie rellies, if you see what I mean.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/115/

     

    Please read the "Who is this visa for" section very carefully - if necessary, please read it out loud because that is the easiest way to ensure that you understand the jargon and what it means.

     

    The usual problem with H&W enquiries is that one of them has no rellies apart from the rellies in Oz. However the other spouse has at least one close relly who does not live in Oz. H&W are deemed to be one "family unit" which means that the in-laws count against both halves of the couple.

     

    If Remaining Relly is not a goer, how old are each of you, please? Would Working Holiday Visas be possible?

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/working-holiday/417/

     

    I'm not sure about your occupation. I know what reverse osmosis is, which is a huge start for the totally non-scientific Gill! However I'm not sure whether being a Reverse Osmosis Operator counts as a skilled job or a semi-skilled job in Oz. To find out, you need to wade through ANZSCO first:

     

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Product+Lookup/39D53FC6385D8659CA2575DF002DA638?opendocument

     

    I reckon you need to start roughly in the area of my link above but if that looks hopeless when you delve into it, try further down in the list of Major Groups:

     

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/1220.0Contents0First Edition, Revision 1?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=1220.0&issue=First Edition, Revision 1&num=&view=

     

    I very much doubt that your occupation will be listed specifically as "Reverse Osmosis Operator." It is more likely to be "Water Treatment Technician" or something like that.

     

    Finally, whereabouts in Oz are you hoping to settle? Some of the major cities in Oz rely on huge desalination plants. I believe that Perth does and they are building a huge one near Melbourne. I think there are quite a few large desalinators - capable of providing de-salinated water to a medium-sized town (say 30,000 households) but I don't know whereabouts most of the desalinators are.

     

    That's enough from me for the time being. Please let me know what you discover?

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest waterboy

    Thank you very much all of you for your replies, especially Gill.

    I have had a look at the links, the family stream, I have my father and his girlfriend living in the UK and my wife has her father, stepmother and brother/sister in the UK so I don't think we would qualify based on this.

    In regards to age my wife is 26 so she would qualify for the WHV unfortunately I was born in 1979 (32yrs).

    Looking through the other links the only thing that stands out is Water Resources Technician - Earth Science Technical Officer - ASCO 3112-13 but I'm not sure that this really covers desalination plants.

    Is it worth trying for a student visa, is this my only route, although do we still have to leave once the course is completed? Is it possible to do apprenticeships, I don't suppose you can get a visa for that though? Thank you for taking the time to help.

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    Thank you very much all of you for your replies, especially Gill.

    I have had a look at the links, the family stream, I have my father and his girlfriend living in the UK and my wife has her father, stepmother and brother/sister in the UK so I don't think we would qualify based on this.

    In regards to age my wife is 26 so she would qualify for the WHV unfortunately I was born in 1979 (32yrs).

    Looking through the other links the only thing that stands out is Water Resources Technician - Earth Science Technical Officer - ASCO 3112-13 but I'm not sure that this really covers desalination plants.

    Is it worth trying for a student visa, is this my only route, although do we still have to leave once the course is completed? Is it possible to do apprenticeships, I don't suppose you can get a visa for that though? Thank you for taking the time to help.

     

    Hi Waterboy

     

    Thanks for replying so promptly.

     

    Yes, a Student Visa would be a possibility and if all else fails, it might be the only possibility. Student visas are quite cheap and easy to do on your own. However, that is just the visa! It is also necessary to become an International Student for a minimum of 2 years. Let us say that you wanted to study Bricklaying. The college fees would be around $18,000 AUD a year ($36,000 in total) and there are other expenses on top. This used to be a guaranteed route to permanent migration to Oz. Then it became not viable at all for a couple of years. DIAC have recently changed the relevant law again and I think that the latest scheme will actually work better than its original predecessor.

     

    However, because of the costs it would be silly not to examine whether we could get you a skilled visa instead. It might not be possible but if we don't investigate, we will never find out! I'm not a migration agent, so I am not going to pat you on the head and say, "Gimme £1,500 and I'll deal with everything for you." What I do is to show people how they can do things by themselves. I happen to believe that it is reasonable for other people to discover how to do this without trying to charge them anything. DIAC believe so as well, to which end the DIAC website is by far the best of its type that I have ever come across. That said, understanding the DIAC website requires several hours of intensive effort, cold towels and strong coffee, in my experience! This visa stuff is a head-banger until you get used to how it all works. I'm too lazy to do it for you but I am not too lazy to show you how to do it by yourself. Even if you end up with a Registered Migration Agent to help you, the client who can get the best out of his agent is the one who has a pretty good understanding of the whole thing himself.

     

    Rite! Skilled Visas for Oz. There are 2 types - one is skilled independent migration (also known as the General Skilled Migration programme or GSM visas.) GSM visas do not require an Aussie employer to sponsor the immigrant. There are other hoops to jump through instead with the GSM Programme. However they are the best option to consider first because if it is possible to get a GSM visa then it is not necessary to muck about trying to find a willing, eligible and co-operative employer at this stage.

     

    If GSM is not a viable option then it is worth considering employer-sponsored migration instead. If that is also a non-starter then one should consider a Student visa as the option of last resort, if you like. An Aussie who wants to become a Bricklayer can do so for about 1/3 to 1/4 of the amount that it costs an International Student to do it.

     

    So! GSM visas. These depend on 4 things, being:

     

    1. Nominating an occupation that is in demand in Australia;

    2. The wannabe immigrant MUST hold the right academic or trade qualification - is s/he must have the Piece of Paper;

    3. S/he also needs work experience on top and the paper qualification must be relevant to the type of work experience;

    4. S/he also needs to score at least 65 in the Points Test for GSM.

     

    Therefore, in that order:

     

    1. The Occupation in demand in Australia:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/a-z.htm

     

    The ASRI list is for GSM migration. It is partly a simplified version of ANZSCO but also partly, ASRI has been adapted so that it will help someone who wants a GSM visa. There is much more flexibility with employer-sponsored migration but we need to stick with the GSN Programme to start with.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/e/earth-science-technician.htm

     

    Your Earth Geezer! According to ASRI, this person "Collects and tests earth and water samples, records observations and analyses data in support of Geologists or Geophysicists." Is that what you do or do you operate a machine that produces desalinated water, please? (A migration agent would ask for a copy of your CV but I don't see why you can't read the relevant documents and then compose a CV by yourself. Shoe-horns are useful tools in ways that one might not expect but it is no use to claim that Bloggs is a brain surgeon because DIAC expect factual corroboration from Bloggs' employer, plus there are now stringent penalties for bogus documents or information! Anyway the Skills Assessment authority for Brain Surgery is the Australian Medical Council, so one does not have carte blanche to be completely silly about this.)

     

    Therefore what you actually do at work must not be too different from what ANZSCO describes for the occupation concerned. You have read about the Earth Geezer in ANZSCO. Does it sound similar enough, do you think?

     

    2. The Paper Qualification: ASRI says that an AQF Diploma will do as the minimum academic qualification. (AQF = Australian Qualifications Framework.) An AQF Diploma is the rough equivalent of an NVQ4 in the UK. You say that you completed 3 years of a degree course but did not complete it. Were you a full-time Student at a Uni that someone has heard of? If yes, did they give you anything to prove that you had completed the first 3 years of your degree? If not, would you be able to get them to cough up anything now if you were to ask them?

     

    As long as there is something useful to go on, the relevant Skills Assessment authority is VETASSESS. They are a nightmare on legs imho but that is because I have no hands-on familiarity with their latest Roolz & Procedures. This is where a top-notch Registered Migration Agent can be very handy and can provide Value For Money because an experienced RMA understands VETASSESS. (Allegedly the Aussie Government is even more bureaucratic than the British Gummint, though I find it hard to imagine how!)

     

    VETASSESS have been told to become very fussy. You need General Occupations, so please start here:

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/assess2_my_qualifications.cfm

     

    The qualification must be relevant to the occupation and both elements must be proven to the satisfaction of VETASSESS. If you think this is easy so far, think again because the details are here!

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/qa2_nominating_occupation.cfm

     

    We are looking at the possibility of saying that you have the equivalent of an AQF Diploma, which makes our Earth Geezer Group C, OK?

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/qa2_nominating_occupation.cfm#CGroup

     

    Let us assume that Vetassess will say that whatever you manage/have managed to choke out of the Uni is not quite "Highly Relevant." Then please work out the rest!

     

    Vetassess do not guess! Good God no! Bureaucracy never takes wild guesses! Australia relies on a instrument of torture known as the Country Education Profiles (CEP.) An RMA with experience of working with British visa applicants will have a copy of the current CEP for the UK. I'm too mean to spend £50 or so on a sub for the CEP when I am not going to make any money out of it, but I've seen the CEP for the UK.

     

    http://www.aei.gov.au/Services-And-Resources/Services/Country-Education-Profiles/About-CEP/Pages/default.aspx

     

    Start with the freebie for Syria, so that you can see how the CEP works:

     

    http://www.aei.gov.au/CEP/Subcontinent-and-the-Middle-East/Syria/Pages/default.aspx

     

    It is a Bureaucratic Nightmare, like I said, and the one for the UK is no better. Let us say that you stidied at the University of Rutshire. Every possible qualfication that they dish out is listed in the CEP, with a rough description of what the student has to do to achieve each qualification. Then you read across to the next column which tells you what the AQF equivalent is.

     

    It is possible that your partly completed degree in Biomedical Science has produced a Piece of Paper or that the Piece of Paper could be produced and that Vetassess would agree that the Piece of Paper is the equivalent of the AQF Diploma according to the CEP. That's where I'm hoping to get you to with this.

     

    If it wouldn't be possible to get you a Skills Assessment then it would not be possible to get you a GSM visa, so we need not worry about Items 3 & 4 on my list for the minute.

     

    If you decide that you are not an Earth Geezer after all, you need to consider whether you are some other type of Geezer listed in ASRI, OK? Then you repeat the intellectual process that I have described!

     

    It is impossible just to zip through this stuff quickly. Cold towels and hot coffee are essential, in my view.

     

    Please could you see what you think so far and then say whether you think we might have a GSM goer on our hands?

     

    Many thanks

     

    Gill

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    Guest Sachertorte

    I would like to show my appreciation to Gill guys- what a great help to all manners of aspiring migrants she has been during many years!:notworthy:

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    Contact SA Water http://www.sawater.com.au/SAWater/WhatsNew/MajorProjects/ADP.htm . Not saying they have a job but it doesn't hurt to ask. they may be able to give you some clues and point you in the right direction.

     

    Hi Kris and Waterboy

     

    If SA Water can help us to identify the occupation then it is worth asking them. It is also worth being nice to them in case they might be willing to consider employer-sponsored immigration.

     

    Many thanks for the idea and the link, Kris.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest knsc

    Hi

    Water Boy

    This looks like your job

    ANZSCO 712921 WASTE WATER OR WATER PLANT OPERATOR

    • Operates plant to store, distribute and treat water including purifying water for human consumption and removing wastes from sewage. Skill Level: 4

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Product+Lookup/1220.0~First+Edition,+Revision+1~Chapter~UNIT+GROUP+7129+Other+Stationary+Plant+Operators

     

    UNIT GROUP 7129 OTHER STATIONARY PLANT OPERATORS

     

    Hope it helps

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    Guest waterboy
    Hi

    Water Boy

    This looks like your job

    ANZSCO 712921 WASTE WATER OR WATER PLANT OPERATOR

    • Operates plant to store, distribute and treat water including purifying water for human consumption and removing wastes from sewage. Skill Level: 4

    http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Product+Lookup/1220.0~First+Edition,+Revision+1~Chapter~UNIT+GROUP+7129+Other+Stationary+Plant+Operators

     

    UNIT GROUP 7129 OTHER STATIONARY PLANT OPERATORS

     

    Hope it helps

    :notworthy: Thank you very much for this. This is what my occupation is. It says a Cert II/Cert III or 1 years experience. I have tried to get on an Australian Cert III course from here but have been advised they cannot help until I arrive in Australia. I do meet the experience guidelines though.

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    Guest waterboy
    Hi Waterboy

     

    Thanks for replying so promptly.

     

    Yes, a Student Visa would be a possibility and if all else fails, it might be the only possibility. Student visas are quite cheap and easy to do on your own. However, that is just the visa! It is also necessary to become an International Student for a minimum of 2 years. Let us say that you wanted to study Bricklaying. The college fees would be around $18,000 AUD a year ($36,000 in total) and there are other expenses on top. This used to be a guaranteed route to permanent migration to Oz. Then it became not viable at all for a couple of years. DIAC have recently changed the relevant law again and I think that the latest scheme will actually work better than its original predecessor.

     

    However, because of the costs it would be silly not to examine whether we could get you a skilled visa instead. It might not be possible but if we don't investigate, we will never find out! I'm not a migration agent, so I am not going to pat you on the head and say, "Gimme £1,500 and I'll deal with everything for you." What I do is to show people how they can do things by themselves. I happen to believe that it is reasonable for other people to discover how to do this without trying to charge them anything. DIAC believe so as well, to which end the DIAC website is by far the best of its type that I have ever come across. That said, understanding the DIAC website requires several hours of intensive effort, cold towels and strong coffee, in my experience! This visa stuff is a head-banger until you get used to how it all works. I'm too lazy to do it for you but I am not too lazy to show you how to do it by yourself. Even if you end up with a Registered Migration Agent to help you, the client who can get the best out of his agent is the one who has a pretty good understanding of the whole thing himself.

     

    Rite! Skilled Visas for Oz. There are 2 types - one is skilled independent migration (also known as the General Skilled Migration programme or GSM visas.) GSM visas do not require an Aussie employer to sponsor the immigrant. There are other hoops to jump through instead with the GSM Programme. However they are the best option to consider first because if it is possible to get a GSM visa then it is not necessary to muck about trying to find a willing, eligible and co-operative employer at this stage.

     

    If GSM is not a viable option then it is worth considering employer-sponsored migration instead. If that is also a non-starter then one should consider a Student visa as the option of last resort, if you like. An Aussie who wants to become a Bricklayer can do so for about 1/3 to 1/4 of the amount that it costs an International Student to do it.

     

    So! GSM visas. These depend on 4 things, being:

     

    1. Nominating an occupation that is in demand in Australia;

    2. The wannabe immigrant MUST hold the right academic or trade qualification - is s/he must have the Piece of Paper;

    3. S/he also needs work experience on top and the paper qualification must be relevant to the type of work experience;

    4. S/he also needs to score at least 65 in the Points Test for GSM.

     

    Therefore, in that order:

     

    1. The Occupation in demand in Australia:

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/a-z.htm

     

    The ASRI list is for GSM migration. It is partly a simplified version of ANZSCO but also partly, ASRI has been adapted so that it will help someone who wants a GSM visa. There is much more flexibility with employer-sponsored migration but we need to stick with the GSN Programme to start with.

     

    http://www.immi.gov.au/asri/occupations/e/earth-science-technician.htm

     

    Your Earth Geezer! According to ASRI, this person "Collects and tests earth and water samples, records observations and analyses data in support of Geologists or Geophysicists." Is that what you do or do you operate a machine that produces desalinated water, please? (A migration agent would ask for a copy of your CV but I don't see why you can't read the relevant documents and then compose a CV by yourself. Shoe-horns are useful tools in ways that one might not expect but it is no use to claim that Bloggs is a brain surgeon because DIAC expect factual corroboration from Bloggs' employer, plus there are now stringent penalties for bogus documents or information! Anyway the Skills Assessment authority for Brain Surgery is the Australian Medical Council, so one does not have carte blanche to be completely silly about this.)

     

    Therefore what you actually do at work must not be too different from what ANZSCO describes for the occupation concerned. You have read about the Earth Geezer in ANZSCO. Does it sound similar enough, do you think?

     

    2. The Paper Qualification: ASRI says that an AQF Diploma will do as the minimum academic qualification. (AQF = Australian Qualifications Framework.) An AQF Diploma is the rough equivalent of an NVQ4 in the UK. You say that you completed 3 years of a degree course but did not complete it. Were you a full-time Student at a Uni that someone has heard of? If yes, did they give you anything to prove that you had completed the first 3 years of your degree? If not, would you be able to get them to cough up anything now if you were to ask them?

     

    As long as there is something useful to go on, the relevant Skills Assessment authority is VETASSESS. They are a nightmare on legs imho but that is because I have no hands-on familiarity with their latest Roolz & Procedures. This is where a top-notch Registered Migration Agent can be very handy and can provide Value For Money because an experienced RMA understands VETASSESS. (Allegedly the Aussie Government is even more bureaucratic than the British Gummint, though I find it hard to imagine how!)

     

    VETASSESS have been told to become very fussy. You need General Occupations, so please start here:

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/assess2_my_qualifications.cfm

     

    The qualification must be relevant to the occupation and both elements must be proven to the satisfaction of VETASSESS. If you think this is easy so far, think again because the details are here!

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/qa2_nominating_occupation.cfm

     

    We are looking at the possibility of saying that you have the equivalent of an AQF Diploma, which makes our Earth Geezer Group C, OK?

     

    http://www.vetassess.com.au/migrate_to_australia/qa2_nominating_occupation.cfm#CGroup

     

    Let us assume that Vetassess will say that whatever you manage/have managed to choke out of the Uni is not quite "Highly Relevant." Then please work out the rest!

     

    Vetassess do not guess! Good God no! Bureaucracy never takes wild guesses! Australia relies on a instrument of torture known as the Country Education Profiles (CEP.) An RMA with experience of working with British visa applicants will have a copy of the current CEP for the UK. I'm too mean to spend £50 or so on a sub for the CEP when I am not going to make any money out of it, but I've seen the CEP for the UK.

     

    http://www.aei.gov.au/Services-And-Resources/Services/Country-Education-Profiles/About-CEP/Pages/default.aspx

     

    Start with the freebie for Syria, so that you can see how the CEP works:

     

    http://www.aei.gov.au/CEP/Subcontinent-and-the-Middle-East/Syria/Pages/default.aspx

     

    It is a Bureaucratic Nightmare, like I said, and the one for the UK is no better. Let us say that you stidied at the University of Rutshire. Every possible qualfication that they dish out is listed in the CEP, with a rough description of what the student has to do to achieve each qualification. Then you read across to the next column which tells you what the AQF equivalent is.

     

    It is possible that your partly completed degree in Biomedical Science has produced a Piece of Paper or that the Piece of Paper could be produced and that Vetassess would agree that the Piece of Paper is the equivalent of the AQF Diploma according to the CEP. That's where I'm hoping to get you to with this.

     

    If it wouldn't be possible to get you a Skills Assessment then it would not be possible to get you a GSM visa, so we need not worry about Items 3 & 4 on my list for the minute.

     

    If you decide that you are not an Earth Geezer after all, you need to consider whether you are some other type of Geezer listed in ASRI, OK? Then you repeat the intellectual process that I have described!

     

    It is impossible just to zip through this stuff quickly. Cold towels and hot coffee are essential, in my view.

     

    Please could you see what you think so far and then say whether you think we might have a GSM goer on our hands?

     

    Many thanks

     

    Gill

    Gill I really cannot thank you enough for all your time you have given me and patience. I really wish I understood everything as well as yourself.

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    Guest knsc
    :notworthy: Thank you very much for this. This is what my occupation is. It says a Cert II/Cert III or 1 years experience. I have tried to get on an Australian Cert III course from here but have been advised they cannot help until I arrive in Australia. I do meet the experience guidelines though.

     

    Your welcome, glad to help. Hopefully Gill can point you in the right direction. Good luck.

     

    Nigel.

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