Guest Guest12727

Link between living location and job prospects?

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    Guest Guest12727

    This is meant to be a question - missed the ? off the title

    On this forum people often post their struggles to find work, while others seem to land and have employment within a few weeks. While there are likely to be many factors involved in this, I have often wondered whether where people are based is a factor.

     

    This research maps suburbs at high and low risk of unemployment

    http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/maps/evi/EVI2011.html

    Type Adelaide, SA into the box

     

    It would be interesting to know whether peoples experiences match this - it may give some useful insight to future migrants.

    Edited by Diane
    Title should be question

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    That's quite an interesting map - some areas quite surprised me as being higher risk (Prospect for instance)

     

    I have added you a title question mark btw!

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    Guest Guest12727
    That's quite an interesting map - some areas quite surprised me as being higher risk (Prospect for instance)

     

    I have added you a title question mark btw!

     

    Thanks for the?

    I read Prospect as low-medium risk - one of us is colour blind me thinks

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    Ah yes I zoomed in a bit more - I was just looking at the near north of Adelaide, but the bit I was looking at is more Regency Park/Croydon sort of area!

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    The map is consistent with what I would expect. As you say there are many factors involved in securing work and lots of things come into play, but in my experience working in hr/recruitment roles someones living location does have an influence on their job prospects, no matter whereabouts in Adelaide they live and depending on the job they are applying for.

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    I would have hoped that the regional differences shouldn't make any difference for new arrivals, who haven't been brought up in particular areas which may have a particular culture of unemployment or whatever. Surely all migrants should be by definition very keen to work, regardless of whether they live in a rich or poor area. It would be very unfortunate if a new keen migrant were discriminated against because they lived, quite unwittingly, in one of the less well regarded areas. Quite often the subtle differences between suburbs are not apparent to newcomers, who see suburbs without the bias of the long-standing inhabitants. I can however understand how outer suburbs may suffer, I knew one employer who had a mental map of the areas within which employees had to work, anyone who lived too far away wasn't even considered for jobs.

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    Guest Guest12727

    Interesting points. I was thinking of this in terms of distance, rather than SES. When we first moved to Adelaide we were staying with relatives in the Barossa Valley but made the decision to move to Adelaide as we had the impression my OH wasn't being put forward for jobs due to location. Whether this was true we didn't know - just a hunch. We secured a short term rental in Parkside and the job interviews certainly increased leading to work soon after.

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    Hi Jessica

     

    Never heard of this map before, but it probably explains why my son is not able to find a job/ apprenticeships as we live in Salisbury Heights.

    Mind you considering the cost of a many of the houses in Salisbury Heights, I am very surprised that it is included with some of the older suburbs further north.

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    Interesting points. I was thinking of this in terms of distance, rather than SES. When we first moved to Adelaide we were staying with relatives in the Barossa Valley but made the decision to move to Adelaide as we had the impression my OH wasn't being put forward for jobs due to location. Whether this was true we didn't know - just a hunch. We secured a short term rental in Parkside and the job interviews certainly increased leading to work soon after.

     

    I would say your hunch was probably correct.

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    FWIW, I've never heard of CofFEE before so would take their findings with a pinch of salt. Finding work comes down to 3 things. Your field of expertise (qualifications included), your expectations, and your determination to be employed.

     

    Oh, make that 4. Your preparedness to try something new.

     

    Thewhitehouse, a family I helped settle, had qualification in unusual fields. The wife found a part time job in her field quite quickly. The husband however didn't. He tried several positions associated with his qualifications but they didn't work out. He started to get really stressed but persevered in his search. He eventually got employment with the SA government, in a field that was outside his norm. The family are now well settled and living the dream life. They have been here for nearly a year and loving it.

     

    So, my advice to you. Your first 'job' is to find a job. Be patient, be careful with your money, the luxuries in life can wait till your securely employed and all those places you want to visit will still be there next year. Talk to older, wiser Australians. They know more than members of POA and they will support you emotionally if need be. Good luck to you all.

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    Talk to older, wiser Australians. They know more than members of POA and they will support you emotionally if need be. Good luck to you all.

     

    Yeh, none of us migrants know what we're talking about - particularly those of us on PIA. Don't listen to anyone unless they were born in Adelaide and have lived here their whole lives and never been anywhere else. Excellent advice.

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    Guest Guest12727
    FWIW, I've never heard of CofFEE before so would take their findings with a pinch of salt.

     

    Centre of Full Employment and Equity - or CofFEE - which is an official research centre at the University of Newcastle

     

    source - http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/

     

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    This is meant to be a question - missed the ? off the title

    On this forum people often post their struggles to find work, while others seem to land and have employment within a few weeks. While there are likely to be many factors involved in this, I have often wondered whether where people are based is a factor.

     

    This research maps suburbs at high and low risk of unemployment

    http://e1.newcastle.edu.au/coffee/maps/evi/EVI2011.html

    Type Adelaide, SA into the box

     

    It would be interesting to know whether peoples experiences match this - it may give some useful insight to future migrants.

     

    The map is interesting, but I think perhaps too much is being made of the alleged link between location and rates of unemployment at least in terms of some sort of causation. What you're seeing is simple correlation, I think.

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    Yeh, none of us migrants know what we're talking about - particularly those of us on PIA. Don't listen to anyone unless they were born in Adelaide and have lived here their whole lives and never been anywhere else. Excellent advice.

     

     

    That's not what he said. I don't think he was belittling anyone elses experience or opinions, just making a (imo valid) point that those with the most extensive experience of Adelaide, and the way it works are the locals who have lived most, or all of their lives here.

    Edited by guspjmh

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    Guest Stoked

    All i can say is there is definitely a lack of work in the Southern Suburbs about now, depending on what you do obviously

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    That's not what he said. I don't think he was belittling anyone elses experience or opinions, just making a (imo valid) point that those with the most extensive experience of Adelaide, and the way it works are the locals who have lived most, or all of their lives here.

     

    Having met DougM I am sure you are right, guspjmh, but I have to say I took it the same way as Diane.

     

    As to the 'locals know best' thing, I think that is a sweeping statement and sweeping statements are often flawed (see what I did there? That is also a sweeping statement lol!). I do agree that the advice of someone who has been here long enough to 'see beneath the surface' or have more than their own, plus a couple of mates', experience would be potentially more valuable than a new arrival's opinion. But, most of my best friends are dinky di and their opinions vary greatly and have no more validity than the opinions of some of the established migrants I know.

     

    I guess what I am saying is that, once again, an opinion is just that..a personal point of view. Take it or don't take it.

     

    As for the statistics, I thought they were very interesting but I tend to agree with Royd's comment.

     

    :smile: LC

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    Having met DougM I am sure you are right, guspjmh, but I have to say I took it the same way as Diane.

     

    As to the 'locals know best' thing, I think that is a sweeping statement and sweeping statements are often flawed (see what I did there? That is also a sweeping statement lol!). I do agree that the advice of someone who has been here long enough to 'see beneath the surface' or have more than their own, plus a couple of mates', experience would be potentially more valuable than a new arrival's opinion. But, most of my best friends are dinky di and their opinions vary greatly and have no more validity than the opinions of some of the established migrants I know.

     

    I guess what I am saying is that, once again, an opinion is just that..a personal point of view. Take it or don't take it.

     

    As for the statistics, I thought they were very interesting but I tend to agree with Royd's comment.

     

    :smile: LC

     

     

    I hear you, but while locals opinions may vary I still think if someone wanted to know about Cardiff (the city i've lived in for 20+ years) then my opinions would be more informed than a recent migrant.

     

    The main point I was making is that I don't feel Doug was being confrontational or dismissive, just stating that it is of value to ask older locals their opinions as they have greater knowledge - which seems common sense.

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    Guest Guest12727

    Thanks everyone for you input.

    This is a snapshot of data, a descriptive study, which can never show causation - I didn't think I said it did. What it does give us though is a picture of the current situation based on a large sample from a reputable source.

     

    There have been many stories on this forum of people who have tried applying for every job going, in and out of their fields of experience, but still have had no luck with finding or keeping a job. I think there was one case where the same person was made redundant 3 times within a year or so from memory. There have been stories of people considering moving back to UK as 'the dream' hasn't worked for them, and this usually is associated with not finding work. So we know that sometimes being willing to try anything and work hard at job hunting doesn't work for all. It may have done in the past - but we have moved into tougher economic times.

     

    I was just trying to offer readers of this forum who have recently made the move, or are planning to soon, an alternative factor to throw into the mix. Location may be worth considering in the early stages, then when jobs are secured, the dream living location can be obtained - rather than the other way around. Just a suggestion for people to mull over.

     

    For what it is worth, I was born in Adelaide and have lived here for 35 of my 49 years - the other 14 were spent in UK. I have been back here 10years in Jan. Not sure that I want to be classed as 'older and wiser' though. :cool:

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    Thanks everyone for you input.

    This is a snapshot of data, a descriptive study, which can never show causation - I didn't think I said it did. What it does give us though is a picture of the current situation based on a large sample from a reputable source.

     

    There have been many stories on this forum of people who have tried applying for every job going, in and out of their fields of experience, but still have had no luck with finding or keeping a job. I think there was one case where the same person was made redundant 3 times within a year or so from memory. There have been stories of people considering moving back to UK as 'the dream' hasn't worked for them, and this usually is associated with not finding work. So we know that sometimes being willing to try anything and work hard at job hunting doesn't work for all. It may have done in the past - but we have moved into tougher economic times.

     

    I was just trying to offer readers of this forum who have recently made the move, or are planning to soon, an alternative factor to throw into the mix. Location may be worth considering in the early stages, then when jobs are secured, the dream living location can be obtained - rather than the other way around. Just a suggestion for people to mull over.

     

    For what it is worth, I was born in Adelaide and have lived here for 35 of my 49 years - the other 14 were spent in UK. I have been back here 10years in Jan. Not sure that I want to be classed as 'older and wiser' though. :cool:

     

    Just older then? :wink:

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    The causation may have been inferred by others.

     

    Those who have lived here for some time can probably work out the causes of the unemployment in the various locations as opposed to other locations where unemployment is not as severe. And before I go on let me say that nothing I write here will be a revelation.

     

     

     

    The stereotypical view on unemployment in metro Adelaide is that it appears strongly in the northern suburbs and in the southern suburbs. Both regions, if I can use that word, contain areas of public housing which were built to accommodate migrant workers who arrived in Adelaide during the later Playford years when the state govt. was trying to shift the state's economy from its largely primary production base to a manufacturing base. You can't manufacture without skilled labour so mainly British immigrants with in-demand skills were settled in those areas.

     

     

    The post-war economic boom in Australia begain to die out in the early 1970s with stagflation and the oil shock. At the same time countries in Asia were ramping up manufacturing and presenting a competitive threat to Australian manufacturing. The children of those migrants who arrived as sponsored migrants, that is they had jobs waiting for them, didn't have the advantage their parents had in terms of work, so what we saw was a gradual rise in unemployment in those areas. Cut to the chase, now we see trans-generational, structural unemployment in those areas.

     

     

    The other parts of Adelaide metro were/are more diverse in terms of demographics and occupations so weren't subject to the sort of devastation that hit South Australian manufacturing.

     

     

    Anyway that's my take on it.

     

     

    British migrants arriving now who don't have jobs waiting for them are disadvantaged in comparison to sponsored migrants in the post-war years. On the other hand I think many, if not most, arriving today, have private capital, usually from savings and perhaps sale of property in the UK and may have the luxury of renting for a while before finding work and making a more permanent decision on where to live. I think a sub-text in this thread is the worth of having a desirable address when looking for work. I have no doubt that, depending on the occupation, your address is important. Adelaide is a very snobbish community, small-minded, parochial, suspicious of "outsiders" and worried that newcomers will "take our jobs".

     

     

    If you're a skilled worker in manufacturing and you line up for a job then I would think that an employer doesn't care where you live, they are more interested in your fit in the job. But it may also be that white collar occupations have recruiters/interviewers who are sensitive to postcodes. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

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    Oh sorry, didn't mean to stir the Hornets nest. As some have realised, I meant that a person who has lived in Adelaide for most of their lives will be a better guide than a newbie who has been, or still is, struggling to find their feet in the employment field.

    As for CofFEE, those researchers are only manipulating info put out by government agency's (State and Federal). They are based way too far away to be able even to estimate what's going on here in Adelaide.

     

     

    Diane re:

     

    Yeh, none of us migrants know what we're talking about - particularly those of us on PIA. Don't listen to anyone unless they were born in Adelaide and have lived here their whole lives and never been anywhere else. Excellent advice.

     

    You take offense far to readily and your sarcasm belittles you. FWIW, I lived half my life in the UK, half here with a two and a half year stint in Singapore as well.

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    Guest Guest12727
    Oh s

    As for CofFEE, those researchers are only manipulating info put out by government agency's (State and Federal). They are based way too far away to be able even to estimate what's going on here in Adelaide.

     

    Not sure they are using government info - they are independent researchers. They actually state that their data tells a different story to that gleaned from the ABS......and just because they analyse the data from Newcastle, doesn't mean they didn't have local knowledge in the data collection process. This is quantitative, objective data, and one of it's strengths is the independence of the researchers, rather than subjective opinion. I go with LazyCow on the sweeping statements comment.

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    Oh sorry, didn't mean to stir the Hornets nest. As some have realised, I meant that a person who has lived in Adelaide for most of their lives will be a better guide than a newbie who has been, or still is, struggling to find their feet in the employment field.

    As for CofFEE, those researchers are only manipulating info put out by government agency's (State and Federal). They are based way too far away to be able even to estimate what's going on here in Adelaide.

     

     

    Diane re:

     

    Yeh, none of us migrants know what we're talking about - particularly those of us on PIA. Don't listen to anyone unless they were born in Adelaide and have lived here their whole lives and never been anywhere else. Excellent advice.

     

    You take offense far to readily and your sarcasm belittles you. FWIW, I lived half my life in the UK, half here with a two and a half year stint in Singapore as well.

     

    I actually think that often those who have moved into a country or area may have more of an idea of job market, and what's going on than 'locals'.

     

    There are many who are in their late 40s or early 50s who have had one or 2 jobs and are oblivious to job trends and availability. They are happy with their life and surrounds.

     

    I'ts not a criticism, or unique to any one country or city.

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    Guest Guest12727

    Royd, Yes, those of us that have lived here are fully aware of all this. New (prospective) migrants may not be.

     

    In the research they also talk about changing employment opportunities, which we can read as closing car manufacturing etc, and we can see this reflected in the red zones.

     

    On the 'desirable address' quote, I am not sure that this is what it means either. I think it is more about locating yourself in the area that is more likely to match your qualifications / work skill area. For example, if a migrant had skills in the wine-making industry then we would expect them to locate themselves in a wine-making region i.e. Southern Vales or Barossa or even Coonawarra. But if they were a teacher expecting to survive on supply teaching work in the early stages, then they would probably be better to locate themselves centrally to optimise the number of schools they are within easy reach of.

     

    Certainly, coming back to Doug's point, local knowledge will help in this regard, but without this local knowledge, new migrants should perhaps think carefully about their living location until they have been here long enough to have discovered that local knowledge for themselves.

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