steven cannon

vaccinations

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    Hello,

     

    We have our visas validated and hope to head out to Adelaide in september 2016. The problem we face is the mandatory vaccinations. We have 2 Girls aged 3 and the other 4 months. We have chosen not to vaccinate either of them, its a personal choice. I don't have any problems with parents who choose to vaccinate their children after all its a personal choice.

     

    Now that the new law is in place for mandatory vaccinations is their any parents out there who are of the same view points as ourselves. So we can ask questions regarding what to do regarding child care. Please don't pass any negative comments towards us as parents, we have read up extensively on the subject and made an informed choice. As a parent i feel its up to us to decide on our childs welfare decisions when there are well documented dangers of vaccinations.

     

    I understand this is a sensitive subject in Australia at present, but I know we are not alone.

     

    Many thanks

     

    Steve

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    You've probably looked into this far more than me, a see vaccinate, but isn't it just that you don't get child care benefits if you don't vaccinate? In my half paying attention way, I had assumed you could still put your child into child care, if you can find one to take you (around Adelaide that's hard even with vaccinations) you just don't get any financial help?

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    When you say you have read widely I assume you mean you have read actual scientific studies published in scientific journals that actually investigate the effects of vaccines and not a whole load of stuff published on the Internet and popular magazines by people with little in the way of real scientific knowledge. The problem with people who claim to have read widely on the subject is generally the kind of stuff they have read is a load of rubbish with no scientific basis. Unfortunately the Internet allows all sorts of people to claim all sorts of things and it is difficult for people without a scientific background to tell the difference between fact and conspiracy.

     

    Anyway, to your point. There is no law for mandatory vaccinations. There is simply now a law in place so that children who are not fully vaccinated will not receive any childcare benefit or rebate. You used to be able to be a conciensious objector and still get the benefits but now it's no jab no pay. I think that one or both of the family tax benefits may also be effected but I don't know for sure on that one as we don't receive family tax benefits. I believe childcare, schools and nurseries can refuse to accept children who have not been vaccinated but in practise I don't think many actually do.

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    This might help, although it really just reiterates what has already been said:

     

    http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/subjects/immunising-your-children?gclid=Cj0KEQiArJe1BRDe_uz1uu-QjvYBEiQACUj6ovdbax2Zk4hwHOvaefdieMAj4RxdOwJc4M8djtMdSpQaApIr8P8HAQ

     

    I respect your right to an opinion, but saying "I know we are not alone" sounds like something from The X-Files....you can usually find someone to support an opinion; we might not have achieved herd immunity yet, but I reckon we have herd mentality.

     

    I found this site, which seems to address potential questions such as exemptions, whether schools can refusal your child an education etc etc:

     

    http://www.vaccinationawareness.com.au/Vaccine_Exemptions.html

     

    LC

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    Steve, (...... and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone)

     

    -but you will have a lot of difficulty finding (-let alone affording) - child care with or without the Government Subsidy, if you don't vaccinate

     

     

    JB

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    Steve, (...... and correct me if I'm wrong, anyone)

     

    -but you will have a lot of difficulty finding (-let alone affording) - child care with or without the Government Subsidy, if you don't vaccinate

     

     

    JB

    There was a mass panic in my mothers group at how long the waiting lists are. Lots of them charge you just to apply!

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    As a grandmother of 7, I fully support this action by the government. I feel we should encourage everyone to vaccinate, by whatever means. I don't want my grandchildren's health at risk from unvaccinated children.

    I am old enough to remember the pre vaccination era and the dreadful results, especially with polio, in my own family. I have always kept my vaccinations up to date and am grateful that doctors, researchers and scientists have given us the means to alleviate these illnesses. The death of two babies from whooping cough in Australia last year should be enough to encourage all vaccination.

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    My kids are vaccinated, and I'd be interested to learn how anyone can defend not vaccinating (except in special circumstances).

     

    The whole anti-vaxer thing arose from an article published in The Lancet, by a guy being paid by lawyers fighting vaccine-producing companies, who was found guilty of fraud and of deliberately cherry-picking 'facts' to prove his hypothesis.

     

    Whilst I'm not convinced the government have the right to take away the individual's right to choose*, and I'm well aware of the arguments re pharmaceutical companies, I'm confused as to why people don't want to protect their children against things like polio and measles.

     

    LC

     

    * specially when we need a referendum before giving indigenous people equal representation in our constitution. :goofy:

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    I know the childcare centre where I've been doing my placement accepts children who haven't been immunised but can exclude them from the centre for a period if there have been reported cases of a particular disease.

     

    Certainly in Victoria no immunisations means no place at a child care centre https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/public-health/immunisation/vaccination-children-adolescents/no-jab-no-play;

     

    this link provides details regarding the legislation: http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/clinical-updates-and-news/$File/Update-No-Jab-No-Pay-Immunisation-Catch-Up-Arrangements(D15-1126865).pdf

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    I found this site, which seems to address potential questions such as exemptions, whether schools can refusal your child an education etc etc:

     

    http://www.vaccinationawareness.com.au/Vaccine_Exemptions.html

     

    LC

     

    Be vary wary of what you read on this site. It's actually an anti-vaccine organisation and they make some rather dubious claims on the site that are not backed by scientific evidence.

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    Be vary wary of what you read on this site. It's actually an anti-vaccine organisation and they make some rather dubious claims on the site that are not backed by scientific evidence.

     

    Yes, thank you @ NicF, that's an important point to make. :notworthy:

     

    I included it knowing that, but I thought perhaps they would offer Steve some support. Although if they give some advice that is incorrect, then I guess that raises doubt regarding the rest of their info.

     

    Anyhoo, not for me to judge!

     

    :wubclub: LC

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    I think if you have decided not to vaccinate then it is your choice. You are the minority and you must also accept the with this decision comes your community responsibility to refrain from sending your children to childcare and to home school them. So I suspect you don't have to worry about any childcare or schooling issues.

    I would advise you not to put such an topical post on a forum and ask people not to judge you. At the moment there are so many children affected by whooping cough because people choosing not to vaccinate has lowered community immunity levels. Very sad.

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    If you're vaccinated then therefore you are protected...no need to be a scientist or digest peer reviewed studies etc to understand this. Therefore if you choose to vaccinate you have absolutely nothing to fear. As for immunity, if you're over 30 and unless you've had any sort of "booster" recently then you have zero protection anyway; those high school vaccinations wearing off long ago.........adults account for the vast majority of the population.

     

    As a sick adult, eg if you have whooping cough, you also have a choice (and responsibility) to exclude yourself and not spread disease to those too young to be vaccinated. Such hypocrisy and lack of self education is why this whole topic becomes irrational.

     

    As for facts, ALL medical procedures and medicines carry risk. It is for the individual to assess risk vs benefit as to any medical procedure that is performed on their (or their child's) body. Especially so in Australia which currently has no vaccine injury compensation scheme as the UK does. If you have a serious adverse reaction you're on your own.

     

    With regards to whooping cough in particular, the issue of "community immunity" isn't due to people choosing not to vaccinate, its because the actual vaccine has been out of stock since late 2015 and will continue to be so for good while longer.....but lets not let the facts get in the way of making such judgement.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I think if you have decided not to vaccinate then it is your choice. You are the minority and you must also accept the with this decision comes your community responsibility to refrain from sending your children to childcare and to home school them. So I suspect you don't have to worry about any childcare or schooling issues.

    I would advise you not to put such an topical post on a forum and ask people not to judge you. At the moment there are so many children affected by whooping cough because people choosing not to vaccinate has lowered community immunity levels. Very sad.

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    Lets see if we can help the OP and continue to answer the questions asked, not get into an argument over it all.

     

    OP, I'm afraid I can't offer any insight into if unvaccinated children can be refused a child care place. Some others do seem to have replied about their own experiences, hopefully this has been of some help.

     

    As NicF has said, what you won't be eligible for is the childcare rebate and this can make a big difference financially. For us we claim half what we pay back (in a lump sum at the end of the tax year is our preference) and it helps considerably toward the childcare costs over the year. I'd imagine for kindy or nursery aged kids its a big difference also if you can claim.

     

    With regards to nurseries, all you can do is enquire at the ones you like and see what they say or what their policy is. Some private places may refuse, I don't know.

     

    Good luck with it all.

    Edited by snifter
    eta

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    If you're vaccinated then therefore you are protected...no need to be a scientist or digest peer reviewed studies etc to understand this. Therefore if you choose to vaccinate you have absolutely nothing to fear. As for immunity, if you're over 30 and unless you've had any sort of "booster" recently then you have zero protection anyway; those high school vaccinations wearing off long ago.........adults account for the vast majority of the population.

     

    As a sick adult, eg if you have whooping cough, you also have a choice (and responsibility) to exclude yourself and not spread disease to those too young to be vaccinated. Such hypocrisy and lack of self education is why this whole topic becomes irrational.

     

    As for facts, ALL medical procedures and medicines carry risk. It is for the individual to assess risk vs benefit as to any medical procedure that is performed on their (or their child's) body. Especially so in Australia which currently has no vaccine injury compensation scheme as the UK does. If you have a serious adverse reaction you're on your own.

     

    With regards to whooping cough in particular, the issue of "community immunity" isn't due to people choosing not to vaccinate, its because the actual vaccine has been out of stock since late 2015 and will continue to be so for good while longer.....but lets not let the facts get in the way of making such judgement.

    Whooping cough isn't out of stock in Australia. It's low stock meaning some places will only give it to pregnant mothers or their families, and some places will sell it to you but at much higher prices than normal. But you can definitely still get it if you NEED it.

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    Hi Steve

     

    I am a Family Day Care Provider and I do not take children that are not vaccinated (my choice) - however there are some providers who will provide this service...

     

    There has been talk very recently (not sure from where) about opening up 'Childcare Centres' for non immunised children. The talk was of Brisbane and Sydney.....

     

    As you have stated this is a 'Hot Topic'...and this has put a lot of pressure on Childcare Centres to review their 'Admissions Policy'

     

    I would suggest you looking at Family Day Care Providers - if you go onto 'Care for Kids' website you will be able to search for all Registered FDC providers. If you need any advice on FDC please do not hesitate to contact me via PM

     

     

    Fiona

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    Steve,

     

    bit concerned : the only person who doesn't seem to have any comments on this thread is you

     

     

    ...are you still reading this?

     

    JB

     

    -looks like Steve isn't reading this thread

     

    JB :swoon:

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