Just seen a thread on PIO.... Leaving debt in UK

[Guest Helchops]

We made sure we paid off everything we owed before leaving to UK, to us it was more of a moral thing.

 

The frightening thing is, if these people can leave the UK with debts and then for it to be wiped out in seven years, what stops them from doing exactly the same thing here, run up debts over seven years and then just piss off to the UK again, unfortunately there are a few out there that do not have the same morals as people have on here.

 

Mike

 

But again, assuming that debt was secured against an asset, the lender would just take the asset. If it was unsecured, more often than not it's such a small sum that a) it wouldn't be worth the lender going after legally and b) it certainly wouldn't be worth emigrating for!!

 

I'm not trying to sound as though I'd walk away from debt - I certainly would not...but if I was in trouble and it came down to a choice between putting food on the table, or lining the Armani suit of a banker...well, you know.

[Guest yogi64]

But again, assuming that debt was secured against an asset, the lender would just take the asset. If it was unsecured, more often than not it's such a small sum that a) it wouldn't be worth the lender going after legally and b) it certainly wouldn't be worth emigrating for!!

 

I'm not trying to sound as though I'd walk away from debt - I certainly would not...but if I was in trouble and it came down to a choice between putting food on the table, or lining the Armani suit of a banker...well, you know.

 

But in reality, its basically theft, isn't it? no matter what the amount.

 

Mike

[catherine.c]

Yeah, I thought you only paid back student loans through the PAYE system, I could be wrong though. Mine was paid off a few years ago thankfully!

 

My daughter is currently paying off her UK student loan whilst here in Oz so there are other ways of paying.

Every year she gets a letter asking for evidence of earnings and they work out the years monthly payments based on her earnings.

[Guest Helchops]

But in reality, its basically theft, isn't it? no matter what the amount.

 

Mike

 

No, that's silly.

 

When you apply for a loan, a bank decides whether to 'risk' accepting you. If you apply with a £100K wage, and then get a Critical Illness and can't pay it back is it still really theft? What about if you borrow £100 from Payday Loans and forget about it. Now you owe £900. Is it theft to make an offer to them of £150? What happens if you're made redundant. Should you go to prison if you can't pay and the loan gets statute barred or written off?

 

Legally, reneging on a debt is a civil wrong and not legal wrong. Can you imagine the turmoil if it were a legal wrong?

 

The lender sets an interest rate that an actuary believes compensates the bank for the risk in lending the money out. Sadly it is a 'group risk' which means the premiums for you or I may be higher, because person 'x' can't afford to pay. It doesn't make person 'x' a criminal. We can't postulate on the reasoning behind his ability to pay or not to pay.

 

The reality is that 99.9% of people who can afford to pay their debts do. It's a very small minority that leave debts when they can afford to service them.

 

Should we lock up those who can't afford to pay because their circumstances pay? Lock up the single mom whose husband leaves her saddled with debt, two kids and no child support...

 

Money makes the world a harsh place. But then I'm an anarchist at heart!

[Guest Richie_T]

lol, well what may be conveyed as me trying to get away with paying my student loan off, the comment was infact a light hearted one!

 

although the PAYE system is the general way to pay, you can choose to overpay if u wish, and they have also asked if I wanted to calculate my earnings here to slowly siphon my money away but Ive decided to get it over and done with in one go.

 

Ive already activated my student loans online account and will be paying the lump sum off once the new figure is given to me. No dishonesty on my part

 

But agreeing with other posters, if u have a debt, u should pay it off. one reason im fed up of the UK is of all the tax dodgings and people not paying their way in life!

[Guest Guest75]

I can see the reasoning for both sides of this, well done Helchops for coming in /playing Devil's Advocate.

 

There are other sides to most stories..

 

I think most of us are just taking the basic premise that someone has racked up debt (perhaps to have luxuries), has no intention of paying it off now they see an escape to Oz.

 

Each situation has it's own merits and minus points I am sure, I feel sorry for those caught in the debt trap through no fault of thier own.

 

For those taking out credit willy nilly with no thought to the future - shame on you.

Do without something !!

 

 

In our business history a good few years back we expanded rapidly,we had to keep going onward or loose very profitable territory to competition.

The bank called us in and said they would start bouncing any issued cheques and would fold us in two weeks if we did not come up with a plan.

 

We did............

 

For a couple of years we literally drove death traps,ate the cheapest food possible, lived in a real dump we were renovating (in 2 bad winters).

Life was awful but there was light at the end of the tunnel and we were patient, I kept hearing the words of my old Dad "A Pound saved now is worth 5 in the future"

 

 

We did it - cleared a one hundred thousand Pound overdaft off, and nearly cleared a commercial property mortgage off.

 

The year after we paid everything of business wise and owned outright a retail outlet and a warehouse in the retail group we had - the bank hated us!!

 

People say how lucky we are now (sic)

 

 

With debt, always ask "Do I NEED it or just WANT it" before signing for that new car / holiday.

 

 

This is the way I am built and hopefully it show how I think.

 

Just had a bad week as it is.

Forgot the car loan finished and needed paying off plus at two of the rentals had to spend $8000 on sudden replacements.

Paid the car loan out as it was going to be 11.5% against the 7.1% I had previously. Leaves me tight but I know where I am.

 

 

Now.................... Back to polishing up those thumbscrews for those varmints running away from their obligations...........

[Guest Guest75]

lol, well what may be conveyed as me trying to get away with paying my student loan off, the comment was infact a light hearted one!

 

although the PAYE system is the general way to pay, you can choose to overpay if u wish, and they have also asked if I wanted to calculate my earnings here to slowly siphon my money away but Ive decided to get it over and done with in one go.

 

Ive already activated my student loans online account and will be paying the lump sum off once the new figure is given to me. No dishonesty on my part

 

But agreeing with other posters, if u have a debt, u should pay it off. one reason im fed up of the UK is of all the tax dodgings and people not paying their way in life!

 

 

Thank goodness for that. Now I have to "un arrange " the Lynch mob!!!!!

Bung the odd emoticon / smiley in to let others know you are being light hearted.

[Lazy Cow]

Naughty Richie T! You got us going for sure lol And that made me laugh this morning, thank you!

 

Helchops, obviously each case is individual. If someone took a loan (or whatever) in good faith and then, through no fault of their own, found themselves in a position where it was food or debt then I think we would all sympathise BUT it then comes down to how they handle the debt.

 

If they just shrug it off then I think that, to me, is morally wrong and I would probably slate them for it.

 

If they contact the company, explain the situation and try to come to some type of payment plan, then that's all good.

 

If borrowed the money in the knowledge they could leave the country, go bankrupt or just stick their finger up at the society that will end up paying then I think that totally sucks and makes them total $hits.*

 

You say that they are not criminals and obviously, since it is not a legal issue, they are not. But that does not make them innocent either. I respect your insider knowledge and take comfort from your statistic but I would still argue that the debt is picked up by the other customers. The Armani-suited banker will never lose but we, the consumer, always do. That's business.

 

Tyke. Darn it. I'm not sure how to take the fact that we finally agree....I'm currently in Stage Four of the Five Stages (Denial, Anger, More Denial, Revulsion, Acceptance) and I'm not sure I can stomach Stage Five lol

 

And this is in no way addressed to Tyke, though it is to Mrs Tyke (as the brains and looks of the partnership). I have so much respect for all the hard work you guys have put in over the years. It is a choice we can all make and they are a great example to my kids. You should be able to enjoy yourselves now, you lucky, lucky b-words lol!

 

LC

 

* I only use bad language when I am reeeeallly hacked off

[Guest ali]

lol, well what may be conveyed as me trying to get away with paying my student loan off, the comment was infact a light hearted one!

 

although the PAYE system is the general way to pay, you can choose to overpay if u wish, and they have also asked if I wanted to calculate my earnings here to slowly siphon my money away but Ive decided to get it over and done with in one go.

 

Ive already activated my student loans online account and will be paying the lump sum off once the new figure is given to me. No dishonesty on my part

 

But agreeing with other posters, if u have a debt, u should pay it off. one reason im fed up of the UK is of all the tax dodgings and people not paying their way in life!

 

Good man Richie

[jim and adel]

...but if I was in trouble and it came down to a choice between putting food on the table, or lining the Armani suit of a banker...well, you know.

 

Not all debts are owed to well dressed bankers and the thread mentioned at the start isn't about a choice of eating or paying; basically if someone can afford the expensive business of migrating they can afford to pay their debts. There'll always be cases of hardship but that's a very different matter to someone jumping ship.

 

I say flog 'em.

 

Jim

[Guest Helchops]

Not all debts are owed to well dressed bankers and the thread mentioned at the start isn't about a choice of eating or paying; basically if someone can afford the expensive business of migrating they can afford to pay their debts. There'll always be cases of hardship but that's a very different matter to someone jumping ship.

 

I say flog 'em.

 

Jim

 

There's a saying. If a bank thinks you need the money, you've no chance of having it. If they think you don't want/need it, you can usually borrow it. Fundamentally, banks have to prey on the poorer members of society to make a profit. I'm thankful that aside from my mortgage I'm not in this position - but if I were struggling to provide for my family you coming along with a whip might make my day considerably worse!!

 

 

Helchops, obviously each case is individual. If someone took a loan (or whatever) in good faith and then, through no fault of their own, found themselves in a position where it was food or debt then I think we would all sympathise BUT it then comes down to how they handle the debt.

 

 

Absolutely. I agree that if some little $h1t comes along, takes out three personal loans and then emigrates, he deserves to be come after. My point is that most people aren't like that - and most personal loans and credit cards are taken out in good faith. It's only when the borrowers circumstances change that make it unaffordable.

 

It's like marriage. You don't get married hoping for a divorce but sometimes, there just isn't a choice. Doesn't mean divorcees should be outcast from society.

[jim and adel]

Getting a divorce is in no way similar to ducking out of one's debts. Hardship isn't the issue in this thread (or the one being mentioned on PIO), but doing a runner with someone else's money.

 

Having reflected on it, flogging's too good for them.

 

Jim

[Guest Helchops]

Getting a divorce is in no way similar to ducking out of one's debts. Hardship isn't the issue in this thread (or the one being mentioned on PIO), but doing a runner with someone else's money.

 

Having reflected on it, flogging's too good for them.

 

Jim

 

I know it wasn't the issue originally.

 

My point, is that in the eyes of lenders, there is no difference between someone in the middle of a divorce (or other nasty situation beyond their control) and someone running away because they think they can get away with it.

 

All I'm saying is that life isn't black and white - but lenders think it is. I don't think we should always be that quick to judge.

 

Flog those that do a 'hop skip and jump' from debt, sure...but not everyone who doesn't meet their monthly repayment!!

[jim and adel]

Flog those that do a 'hop skip and jump' from debt, sure...but not everyone who doesn't meet their monthly repayment!!

 

They're the only ones I did suggest I'd flog. This thread wasn't about hardship it was about someone gathering as much debt as they could before they did a runner.

[trevorpayne]

I don't think the debt does die as far as I know if a company continues to try and recover the debt by sending a letter to you last home address then the debt stays alive.

Most big firms now will send a letter out every 5-6 years therefore they can continue to chase the debt.

I would imagine most people would return to blighty at some point even if just to visit family and friends.

They maybe in for a nasty shock, as they say what goes around comes around.

[Guest Helchops]

I don't think the debt does die as far as I know if a company continues to try and recover the debt by sending a letter to you last home address then the debt stays alive.

Most big firms now will send a letter out every 5-6 years therefore they can continue to chase the debt.

I would imagine most people would return to blighty at some point even if just to visit family and friends.

They maybe in for a nasty shock, as they say what goes around comes around.

 

As long as a debtor doesn't acknowledge the debt or pay anything toward the debt (and assuming they don't get a CCJ against them which can't happen if you're a non-resident) the debt does become statute barred...I can't remember whether that's after five or six years though. Normally though, a lender would get a CCJ on the debtor based on their last known 'UK' address - although this is technically illegal - but at this stage the onus is on the debtor to get the CCJ set aside and it's all just a little complicated! Once a CCJ is attained, there is no statute barred period and the debt can last forever.