Cheap Parent Visas Part I

[Gollywobbler]

Hi can I confirm I'm reading with info correctly please -

I have a 176 PR visa and my parents are looking at coming over.

 

If they come over on a tourist visa could they apply for an aged parent 804 visa (they are 67 and 71, and I only have 1 brother so do qualify) can they then stay in Oz on a bridging visa of some kind?

 

Thanks for any help offered x

 

Hi Pixie

 

Your Parents cannot apply for the onshore Aged Parent subclass 804 visa unless they are physically in Australia at the time when the APV application is lodged. In these circs, they would be given Bridging Visas that would enable them to remain in Australia lawfully until the outcome of the APV application is finally known. In this situation, they would not need further visitor or tourist visas.

 

It is not possible to get a Bridging Visa off the back of a visitor visa in the way that you imagine. One must apply for an onshore APV first because the APV application is the thing that gives rise to the Bridging Visa.

 

So they need to go to Oz first, apply for the APV whilst in Oz and then they can stay in Australia because of the Bridging Visas.

 

However they MUST NOT obtain visitor or tourist visas if the intention is to use those to enter Australia with the intention of making APV applications once they have arrived in Australia. There is no legal problem if people go to Australia and then genuinely change their minds about their intentions once they are in Oz.

 

However if someone turns up at an Aussie Airport and tells the Immigration Official, "Oh, I've come for the rest of my llife," the Offical will say, "Not on a visitor visa, you haven't, matey." The Official would have the power to cancel the visitor visa on the spot and send the hopeful Parent packing, out of Australia.

 

So it is very important that you should be absolutely clear about what everyone in your family should do and what they should think at the relevant times. There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going to, as they say.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest pixie7]

Thanks Gill- was hoping you would put me straight- much appreciated!

[Guest donnab]

Hi Gill,

thanks for this wonderful piece of info...

i have already applied CPV (143) for my mother..

she is 63 y.o..

now i hv come across this information.. and i wonder if i can wait for another 2 years..and then reapply for her in onshore APV(804) category..

i would ofcourse have to cancel the current(143) application... will the department consider this case...

i am a bit confused here...:confused::confused:pls help..

thx...donna

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill,

thanks for this wonderful piece of info...

i have already applied CPV (143) for my mother..

she is 63 y.o..

now i hv come across this information.. and i wonder if i can wait for another 2 years..and then reapply for her in onshore APV(804) category..

i would ofcourse have to cancel the current(143) application... will the department consider this case...

i am a bit confused here...:confused::confused:pls help..

thx...donna

 

Hi Donna

 

Gosh this is a difficult question!!! This is about my 10th attempt at a reply because I don't know where to start.

 

My instinct is that I wouldn't ditch your mother's application for a CPV 143. You could do it but you would feel terrible if she becomes ill before she is old enough to qualify for an APV 804 OR if DIAC decide that people are abusing the APV 804 visa and get stroppy about it before your Mum would be old enough to apply for one.

 

So in your shoes, I would stay as you are, to be honest.

 

Personally, I also suspect that APV 804s probably don't cost any less than CPV 143s in the end. I think that what happens with an APV 804 is that the same amount of actual money is spent - it is merely spent over a longer period, on other things besides the visa. Because of the longer period and the fact that it is more of a "drip feed" an APV 804 can be obtained out of cash-flow rather than out of capital.

 

I reckon that is the only real difference between them and I'll bet that DIAC's bean counters do their sums every year. If DIAC thought that APV 804s are genuinely "cheaper" than CPV 143s, it would have a negative effect on the demand for CPV 143s. The income from CPV applications is about $18 million a year at the moment, so DIAC are not likely to let that cash cow drop dead! Trust me, DIAC are not even slightly sentimental. Their abacus is never far from their fingers.

 

So they definitely aren't allowing the APV 804 route out of sentimentality. Therefore they must reckon that the sums are OK because iif the dosh is not being given to the Government in a lump sum, the same amount is still being spent in Australia so the winner is always the Aussie economy, I reckon.

 

Does this help?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest donnab]

Hi Gill.

 

"I think that what happens with an APV 804 is that the same amount of actual money is spent - it is merely spent over a longer period, on other things besides the visa. "

 

I assumed that once you get a bridge visa in this country, there are no other charges.. the visa even covers you for medical.. which is the biggest thing i can think of..

The aged person pension is of course a liability for the govt.. but thy become eligible after 10 yrs.

apart from this are there any other charges that anyone under APV 804 will have to pay during the processing of their visa.

 

can you please provide some details on this.

can you suggest some migration agents who can process these..there are just heaps on mara website.. and it's hard to choose.

 

cheers,

donna

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill.

 

"I think that what happens with an APV 804 is that the same amount of actual money is spent - it is merely spent over a longer period, on other things besides the visa. "

 

I assumed that once you get a bridge visa in this country, there are no other charges.. the visa even covers you for medical.. which is the biggest thing i can think of..

The aged person pension is of course a liability for the govt.. but thy become eligible after 10 yrs.

apart from this are there any other charges that anyone under APV 804 will have to pay during the processing of their visa.

 

can you please provide some details on this.

can you suggest some migration agents who can process these..there are just heaps on mara website.. and it's hard to choose.

 

cheers,

donna

 

Hi Donna

 

Right! This is my third go at replying! Something is wrong with my Broadband. If I answer the phone, my PC shuts down and restarts with some callers but not others. I don't know why the fault isn't consistent. However the phone line is BT and my ISP is Tiscali, so they just blame each other whenever I try to ask them to work out what is wrong and fix it. Let us now hope for some peace & quiet until I get this done!

 

With most APV 804 applicants, they are only applying for APVs because they can't afford to buy CAPVs instead. With little money, there is no great need to worry about Tax. With your own mother, there might be a need to consider the taxation angles for her because she could afford to buy a CPV instead, so there is clearly some money, if not a massive amount. I know nothing about Tax. It is the one thing I have not tried to discuss in this thread.

 

For tax advice, if the person is British then I recommend Alan Collett of Go Matilda in Melbourne every time. He is a Registered Migration Agent but much more relevantly, he is also a Chartered Accountant. He has the bean counter qualifications for England & Wales and separately, he is a qualified bean counter in Australia as well. I believe that Alan specialises in the tax planning and affairs of Britons who want to move out to Oz. If your Mum is not British I reckon that Alan would be able to refer her to somebody suitable.

 

I do know that when Britons live in Australia, the Australian Taxation Office treats them differently according to whether they are Permanent Residents of Australia or Temporary Residents of Australia. The holder of a Bridging Visa is not a PR but s/he is not necessarily a TR instead. The ATO & HMRC might have a third tax category for people who are "in limbo," as it were. I'm not convinced that an APV applicant who holds a Bridging Visa has necessarily "emigrated" from the UK because they definitely haven't "immigrated" to Australia instead, so I don't how how the British State Pension should be treated in this situation, for instance. Personally, I trust Alan Collett 100% to be able to answer this sort of question accurately. My own problem is that so far, I haven't been able to persuade Mum that we should get some competent advice from Alan.

 

I agree with you that medical expenses do seem to be the main cost with an APV but I do think that depends on whether the applicant's tax-angle might be relevant as well.

 

I'm less unsure about the position with medical expenses (and I'm not scared about those in the way that I am scared about Tax.)

 

The legislation for Bridging Visas specifically excludes entitlement to Medicare if the Bridging Visa holder has applied for an Aged Parent or Contributory Aged Parent visa. Form 1024i confirms this. Howver, if the Bridging Visa holder comes from a country that has a Reciprocal Health Care Agreement with Australia then the person might be entitled to limited "visitor Medicare" only. It depends on the relevant RHCA, if there is one, which in turn makes the applicant's country of origin crucially important to the question.

 

Is your Mum British? If she is then there is an RHCA between Oz and the UK but it only entitles the visitor to Medicare for *necessary* medical treatment in Oz. I interpret this to mean that Medicare will pay to deal with the visitor's blood pressure but it won't necessarily pay for his/her bunions as well. A patient can't feel her blood pressure (I speak from personal experience!) However I'd know about a sore foot and my foot would affect my mobility, even though it might not threaten my life.

 

A British APV applicant will be dependent on visitor Medicare for a minimum of 8 years and it could be as many as 16 years. That depends on the number of APVs available each year. Even 8 years is a long time to put up with restricted mobility caused by bunions.

 

Sure, private medical insurance would be available and I recommend that to anyone who is going to be on a Bridging Visa for a long time. However, an APV applicant is bound to be at least 65, added to which s/he is not a Permanent Resident, so the premiums will be exceedingly high. More than twice as much as someone of your own age and immigration status would pay.

 

Which is why I don't think an APV 804 is actually as cheap as it looks.

 

For the rest, please slog through this thread from the very beginning. All the info you want is there, together with the relevant links.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Misplaced]

Gill, Just want to try and sum up what is needed to apply for an APV 804. The child sponsoring has to be a permanent resident in Oz? Is there a time limit on this like 2 years? When the parent is applying for the visa to go to Oz on 'holiday' they are best advised to apply for a ETA 90 day visa. When entering Oz and if questioned by Immigration on why they are coming ....'it's just for a holiday' They apply for a APV 804 onshore vise to Perth and when this application is made a Bridging Visa A is granted. If they want to go on holiday outside Oz they must apply for a Bridging Visa B which grants them 90 days. I just have one question and that is my understanding that with this Visa they are to have 2 medicals - when do they take place? Do you know? the reason for asking on the medical side of things is that OH mum has had Breast cancer but has been clear for 5 years now. Other than that the only things wrong with her is that she is alittle unsteady on her legs due to a back problem. Look forward to your reply, Mis.

[Gollywobbler]

Gill, Just want to try and sum up what is needed to apply for an APV 804. The child sponsoring has to be a permanent resident in Oz? Is there a time limit on this like 2 years? When the parent is applying for the visa to go to Oz on 'holiday' they are best advised to apply for a ETA 90 day visa. When entering Oz and if questioned by Immigration on why they are coming ....'it's just for a holiday' They apply for a APV 804 onshore vise to Perth and when this application is made a Bridging Visa A is granted. If they want to go on holiday outside Oz they must apply for a Bridging Visa B which grants them 90 days. I just have one question and that is my understanding that with this Visa they are to have 2 medicals - when do they take place? Do you know? the reason for asking on the medical side of things is that OH mum has had Breast cancer but has been clear for 5 years now. Other than that the only things wrong with her is that she is alittle unsteady on her legs due to a back problem. Look forward to your reply, Mis.

 

Hi Mis

 

You'll hate me but it sounds like pedantry is necessary in your case. The reason is because you have asked about the period of "settlement" needed by the person who will sponsor the Parent-applicants, so please bear with me.

 

In your auto-signature, you say:

First thought about migrating 2004 (home for me) not the wife or kids. Again 2008. Decision now made -Kids citizenship forms sent 06/05/11 -Kids Australian Citizens from 23/05/11 -Mine and kids Australian Passports applied for 31/05/11 -Kids Passports arrived 09/06/11 -My Passport arrived 10/06/11

This suggests that you are Hubby and that you are an Australian Citizen? Your Wife's parents might want to migrate in due course. Am I right about the facts so far, please?

 

The legislation says that the person who is going to Sponsor the Parents can be their Child or it can be their Child's co-habiting Spouse or Partner. The Sponsor MUST be "a *settled* Australian Citizen, Australian Permanent Resident or an eligible Kiwi." (Please forget about the Kiwis - they don't sound relevant to you!)

 

The legislation doesn't contain any clear guidance about what is meant by "settled." Under Policy, DIAC say that they consider a Permanent Resident who has lived in Oz for at least 2 years will be deemed by Policy to be "settled." However, if the Sponsor is an Australian Citizen then a period of as little as 3 months may be regarded as sufficient time under Policy. Please study Booklet 3 on Parent Migration:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/booklets/books3.htm

 

In particular, the relevant bit is the section on Page 18 of Booklet 3, especially the section headed "Settled and Usually Resident."

 

The wording of the legislation about this is so woolly and vague that it has led to litigation in the Court (in the case of Naiker) and it has led to several appeals to the Migration Review Tribunal as well. Please see the following article by Alan Collett of Go Matilda:

 

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=441

 

The thrust of Alan's article is that the Policy idea of two years' residence is not set in tablets of stone. Who is or is not an acceptably settled Sponsor will depend entirely on the facts in each case. The requirement is the same regardless of which Parent visa is chosen - Alan happened to write the article in March 2008, a time when Contributory Parent visas were particularly fashionable, that's all.

 

So where the prospective Sponsor is a co-habiting Partner and he is also an Australian Citizen, in theory the Parent visa application can be made after Son-in-Law has been living in Australia again for as little as 3 months.

 

Personally, I think that one must apply a hefty dose of common-sense to that proposition. In particular:-

 

1. By what means has the Son-in-Law become an Australian Citizen? Is he someone who was a Citizen by birth and he and his family have always lived in Australia apart from a brief sojourn when Son-in-Law went abroad and married hiis Wife? If this is the factual scenario then it follows that Son-in-Law ought to be able to slot back into Australian life pretty quickly and to become "settled" fairly fast. Where Son-in-Law is the only member of his own family who has Australian Citizenship and he has no rellies of his own in Australia then this second chap might not become "settled" in as little as 3 months.

 

2. Also, regardless of the identity of the prospective Sponsor, the reason why Policy says what it says is because a surprisingly high number of people immigrate to Australia but do not stay in Australia long term. The official statistic is that about 25% of people who immigrate to Australia do not stay there and the vast majority of this 25% leave within 2 years of reaching Australia initially. If there is any doubt about whether the Child is going to stay in Australia, it makes no sense to encourage his/her Parents to go rushing out there in hot pursuit.

 

3. Parents are not inanimate dolls. How do we know that they will love Australia as much as their Child does? The Parents have had at least 20 more years in the home country than their Child has had, after all. Their social network in the home country is likely to be stronger than that of their child.

 

Therefore I personally believe that one shouldn't rush into encouraging ideas about Parent migration. I believe that a better plan of attack is for the Child to move to Oz first. Then I think his/her Parents should be encouraged to make at least one lengthy visit to Oz, so that they get used to the daily household routines of "living in Australia" - which is fairly mundane - instead of just making a short visit during which life won't be "normal" because the temptation will be to drag the Parents around in a mad rush to make sure that they see all the local sights, if you see what I mean. "Normal" life is pretty boring - especially when the Parents don't know many people in the area of their own age.

 

I know a British Mum who visits Oz every year in order to visit her daughter in Brisbane but the mother actually hates Australia. She feels bored, lonely, isolated and trapped out there and she is always relieved when she can return to her own friends in the UK, having "done her duty" for the year, if you like. When Mum lived with Daughter in the UK, it was natural to assume that Mum would want to move to Australia asap. However once Mum started living on her own in the UK, she made new friends and has positively blossomed. She relishes her independence, everyone has discovered.

 

Separation always sounds unbearable in advance and in the abstract. In reality, though, people become used to it very quickly and it is not nearly as bad as they thought it was going to be. Therefore I don't think the people who devised this part of the Policy are dim or that defeating Policy is necessarily the best way to proceed.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Gollywobbler]

Gill, Just want to try and sum up what is needed to apply for an APV 804. The child sponsoring has to be a permanent resident in Oz? Is there a time limit on this like 2 years? When the parent is applying for the visa to go to Oz on 'holiday' they are best advised to apply for a ETA 90 day visa. When entering Oz and if questioned by Immigration on why they are coming ....'it's just for a holiday' They apply for a APV 804 onshore vise to Perth and when this application is made a Bridging Visa A is granted. If they want to go on holiday outside Oz they must apply for a Bridging Visa B which grants them 90 days. I just have one question and that is my understanding that with this Visa they are to have 2 medicals - when do they take place? Do you know? the reason for asking on the medical side of things is that OH mum has had Breast cancer but has been clear for 5 years now. Other than that the only things wrong with her is that she is alittle unsteady on her legs due to a back problem. Look forward to your reply, Mis.

 

Hi again, Mis

 

Now for the rest of your questions.

 

When the parent is applying for the visa to go to Oz on 'holiday' they are best advised to apply for a ETA 90 day visa. When entering Oz and if questioned by Immigration on why they are coming ....'it's just for a holiday'

The Parents MUST NOT FIB. It is not possible to get a visitor visa for Australia unless the sole purpose of applying for it is in order to "visit" Australia. "Visiting" somewhere does not include moving there for the rest of one's life. Therefore when the Parents arrive at the Australian airport, it is imperative that they will be telling the truth. Their visa permits a short visit and that is what they have come for.

 

Once they are in Australia, the Parents might like the place so much that they change their minds and decide that they'd like to stay in Australia forever. In that scenario, it might be possible to enable them to do so.

 

One of the reasons why I chose an *offshore* CPV for my own mother is because I knew that she can't be trusted not to rabbit about her life history and all her plans for the future with a total stranger (the hypothetical immigration official) who doesn't even want to hear the entire bluddy saga!

 

....they are best advised to apply for a ETA 90 day visa.

The subclass 976 ETA and the subclass 651 e-Visitor visa cannot attract Condition 8503 - No Further Stay. Condition 8503 prevents the visa holder from making a valid application for any other visa whilst s/he is in Australia. The subclass 676 Tourist Visa can attract Condition 8503, so the price of a longer period of stay can be a loss of flexibility with regard to other possible options.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/tourist/visa-options.htm

 

They apply for a APV 804 onshore vise to Perth and when this application is made a Bridging Visa A is granted. If they want to go on holiday outside Oz they must apply for a Bridging Visa B which grants them 90 days.

You are correct.

 

I just have one question and that is my understanding that with this Visa they are to have 2 medicals - when do they take place?

That certainly used to be the case. The first meds were requested about 15 months after the applicatiion was made and the Parent wouldn't be added to the official Queue until the first set of Meds and pccs had been cleared. The second set of meds & pccs were done at the very end of the waiting period, shortly before the grant of the sc APV 804 visa or the offshore sc 103 Parent Visa.

 

About a year ago, I read a DIAC discussion paper that suggested doing away with the requirement for the first set of meds for non-contributory Parents. The argument was that the 1st VAC is not enough to enable DIAC to cover the cost of processing two sets of meds per Parent, so was it worth insisting on the first set of meds?

 

I don't know what they decided to do in the end (but deciding to have another dozen Meetings about the matter over the course of the next 5 years isn't an unlikely idea for a bunch of Civil Servants to consider to be a wholly reasonable way forward!) Making a decision about it will involve the Chief Medical Officer, his bosses the Suits from the Health Policy Section, DIAC's Finance Section, the PVC, the Family Visa Policy section, maybe DIAC's IT people as well - since they are involved with the new e-Health thing - and probably a dozen other people whom I have not thought to include. You know what Civil Servants are like!

 

The thing to do would be to make the APV application, wait for the Parents Visa Centre to acknowledge the application and then ask them whether two sets of meds will still be required? The PVC will be able to advise at the appropriate time.

 

the reason for asking on the medical side of things is that OH mum has had Breast cancer but has been clear for 5 years now. Other than that the only things wrong with her is that she is alittle unsteady on her legs due to a back problem.

It would be very unusual for the Medical Officer of the Commonwealth to query a history of cancer if the visa applicant has been clear of it for 5 years. As for M-i-L being wobbly on her pins, my own mother broke her back a few years ago and she can hardly walk at all. She can hobble a few yards on a level surface indoors, usiing a zimmer frame but for anything more ambitious she needs a wheelchair. It didn't cause any problems with my mother's visa meds so a bit of lameness shouldn't be a problem for your M-i-L either.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Misplaced]

Gill,

 

You are a star and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

I do no what Civil Servants are like and you are pretty spot on Mind you when you try to leave on a package they find it difficult to let you go!!!

 

Have great Xmas and New Year

 

mis.

[Guest Syed]

Hi Gill and other Forum members,

 

I have come through this thread when I was searching for a low cost option Parents Visa for my parents. There's lot of valuable information on this forum.

 

Background of myself and my sister in OZ:

 

Currently i'm on a 457 visa(came to Sydney in Aug-11) and I plan to apply PR in September 2011. My sister has also been living in Sydney on a 457 for the past 2 years, she plan to apply PR in June . She has been working in Sydney for the past 6 months so she's not dependent on her husband

 

I plan to get my parents next year on a permanent basis Dad (1948) Mom (1959). My parents would pass the Balance of Family Test as both of their children are in Australia.

 

My Plan to get parents on a permanent basis based on the help in this thread

 

My Father is disabled (loss of sight due to diabetes ), cant go outside on his own and my mom needs to take care of him back in India. This has been tough for them as they have been dependent on me even for daily basic needs, as its not a tradition in India for Women to work and lead the family. So its very important for me to get them in OZ to lead a happy life

They have visited me last year when i moved to Sydney and they wanted to carry on their life in OZ

 

My long term plan is :

 

I plan to get my parents on a tourist visa next year for 90 days in March 2013 and apply for a APV bridging visa as I cant' afford the CAPV. I have few doubts and would need your help

 

 

1) In the Eligibility section at http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/aged/804/eligibility-applicant.htm , I have seen that my parents should not hold a sponsored visitor visa to apply onshore . Is this different from the Tourist visa? While applying for the 90 day Tourist Visa I plan to provide assurance of support for their air tickets, accommodation and food. Does that mean my parents hold a sponsored visitor visa ?

 

2) My Dad would be 65 at the time of applying visa but my mom would be 55 only. Can they apply for APV. If not what are the other visas which would enable them to stay with me.

 

3) Can my sister sponsor my parents as she's been living for more than 2 years(457) and would have PR status by 2013 when my parents apply for their Visa.?

 

4) Can I Sponsor them ? I would have stayed less than 2 years in OZ by the time they apply in 2013

 

5) As per http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/34aos.htm The Assurance of Support(AOS) amount should be paid at the time of the visa grant and not at the time application is lodged. Is that right?

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help with my queries

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill and other Forum members,

 

I have come through this thread when I was searching for a low cost option Parents Visa for my parents. There's lot of valuable information on this forum.

 

Background of myself and my sister in OZ:

 

Currently i'm on a 457 visa(came to Sydney in Aug-11) and I plan to apply PR in September 2011. My sister has also been living in Sydney on a 457 for the past 2 years, she plan to apply PR in June . She has been working in Sydney for the past 6 months so she's not dependent on her husband

 

I plan to get my parents next year on a permanent basis Dad (1948) Mom (1959). My parents would pass the Balance of Family Test as both of their children are in Australia.

 

My Plan to get parents on a permanent basis based on the help in this thread

 

My Father is disabled (loss of sight due to diabetes ), cant go outside on his own and my mom needs to take care of him back in India. This has been tough for them as they have been dependent on me even for daily basic needs, as its not a tradition in India for Women to work and lead the family. So its very important for me to get them in OZ to lead a happy life

They have visited me last year when i moved to Sydney and they wanted to carry on their life in OZ

 

My long term plan is :

 

I plan to get my parents on a tourist visa next year for 90 days in March 2013 and apply for a APV bridging visa as I cant' afford the CAPV. I have few doubts and would need your help

 

 

1) In the Eligibility section at http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/aged/804/eligibility-applicant.htm , I have seen that my parents should not hold a sponsored visitor visa to apply onshore . Is this different from the Tourist visa? While applying for the 90 day Tourist Visa I plan to provide assurance of support for their air tickets, accommodation and food. Does that mean my parents hold a sponsored visitor visa ?

 

2) My Dad would be 65 at the time of applying visa but my mom would be 55 only. Can they apply for APV. If not what are the other visas which would enable them to stay with me.

 

3) Can my sister sponsor my parents as she's been living for more than 2 years(457) and would have PR status by 2013 when my parents apply for their Visa.?

 

4) Can I Sponsor them ? I would have stayed less than 2 years in OZ by the time they apply in 2013

 

5) As per http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/34aos.htm The Assurance of Support(AOS) amount should be paid at the time of the visa grant and not at the time application is lodged. Is that right?

 

 

Thanks in advance for your help with my queries

 

Hello Syed

 

I am sorry to disappoint you but from the information you have provided above, your Parents are not eligible to apply for Parent migration at present. From what you say, there are only 2 children, yourself and your sister. However neither of you are Permanent Residents as yet, so at the moment your Parents would not be able to meet the Balance of Family Test - which is central to and crucial to all of the possible Parent visas:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/migrants/family/balance-family.htm

 

If your Parents have no other children apart from yourself and your sister then at least one of you or Sis must obtain a Permanent Resident visa before anything else could be done about possible Parent migration for Mum & Dad. There is no way around this.

 

The second problem is that in order to become eligible for an Aged Parent or a Contributory Aged Parent visa, the older Parent must be 65 or older. You say that Dad was born in 1948, so he is only 61 or 62 now. Mum is younger than Dad so her own age would not solve this problem.

 

The third issue is that it seems that your Parents would only be able to visit Australia if they use a subclass 679 Sponsored Family Visitor Visa:

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/visitors/visiting-family/679/

 

DIAC only insist on the sc 679 visas when the visa applicants come from a High Risk country such as India. I am not a migration agent but my guess is that Condition 8503 is probably imposed automatically on sc 679 visas?

 

The effect of Condition 8503 is that it would prevent your Parents from being able to make a valid application for an APV or a CAPV even if Dad were old enough to do so - which he isn't.

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/52bWaiving_Condition8503.htm

 

The fourth problem is that you say that Dad is either blind or partially sighted due to problems caused by his diabetes. I am a lawyer, not a doctor. However if Dad's blindness prevents him from being able to look after himself, independently of anyone else, then the chances are high that he would not be able to meet the Health requirement for Parent migration. Unless his loss of sight can be cured, it is very unlikely that there will be a way round this problem in the foreseeable future. Blindness usually does operate as a bar to permanent migration in 99% of cases.

 

So although you might have read this thread carefully, doing that is not enough to overcome the problems that you and your Parents face at the moment, unfortunately.

 

Do you know whether it would be possible to restore your father's vision at least in one eye? I am a lawyer, not a doctor, so I don't know whether it is possible to reverse this particular side-effect of diabetes. If it would be possible to restore his vision in one eye then the medical hurdle to migration could be overcome. It wouldn't solve the other problems but I think that when there are several different problems - as there are with your own family - then one can at least try to deal with the problems one by one.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest Syed]

Thanks Gill for your quick response

 

I have listed down my replies to the problems which you replied

 

1) Sorry if I have confused you but this is a long term plan for March 2013 when my parents would visit Sydney. I'm planning ahead so that I can work out a way to get them in the future. If it doesn't workout for me i might have to go back to India to take care of them. My sister and myself should get PR hopefully by then. My sister would have completed more than 3 years in Australia(2 years on 457) by 2012 so i'm hoping she can sponsor.

 

2) My dad would be 65 in 2013 when he applies but my mom wont be older enough, so is that fine if my dad is 65 and both of them can apply for the APV?

 

3)They visited me last year in August for 3 months and they got TR 676 visa with no 8503 condition imposed

 

4) My dad has vision in one of the eye but has lost sight in other, will that help

 

Thanks,

Syed

[Gollywobbler]

Thanks Gill for your quick response

 

I have listed down my replies to the problems which you replied

 

1) Sorry if I have confused you but this is a long term plan for March 2013 when my parents would visit Sydney. I'm planning ahead so that I can work out a way to get them in the future. If it doesn't workout for me i might have to go back to India to take care of them. My sister and myself should get PR hopefully by then. My sister would have completed more than 3 years in Australia(2 years on 457) by 2012 so i'm hoping she can sponsor.

 

2) My dad would be 65 in 2013 when he applies but my mom wont be older enough, so is that fine if my dad is 65 and both of them can apply for the APV?

 

3)They visited me last year in August for 3 months and they got TR 676 visa with no 8503 condition imposed

 

4) My dad has vision in one of the eye but has lost sight in other, will that help

 

Thanks,

Syed

 

Hi Syed

 

1. Once at least 50% of their children have Permanent Residence in Australia, your Parents will be eligible for Parent migration because they will meet the Balance of Family Test. In this situation, time spent in Australia by the Child who will Sponsor the Parent application counts towards the time needed for the sponsor to become "settled" in Oz.

 

2. If your Parents are both in Australia, on a visa which is not subject to Condition 8503, then they could apply for an APV as soon as your Dad turns 65. In this situation, Mum's age would be irrelevant because she would be the secondary visa applicant.

 

3. Are you sure they got a 3-month sc 676 Tourist visa and not a sc 679 Sponsored Family Visitor Visa? If they obtained a sc 676 the first time, why do you think they might have to get a sc 679 next time?

 

That said, don't count on the idea that DIAC will not impose Condition 8503 the next time around. DIAC are not stupid and when members of a family are from a High Risk country, DIAC tend to be more diligent than usual. There was no particular reason for DIAC to impose Condition 8503 on the first visas - your Parents would not have been eligible to apply for any onshore visas anyway. Next time, you can be sure that if you have worked out that they would be eligible to apply for APVs then DIAC will probably work that out as well - which might inspire them to impose Condition 8503. At this stage, we cannot say for sure that this would happen but we can't ignore the possibility that it might happen.

 

4. In your first post, you said that Dad is so disabled by his loss of vision that he can't leave the house without an assistant. Now you say that he is only blind in one eye and can see perfectly well with the other. In that case, why does he need help in order to leave home?

 

It is not me that you have to persuade, Syed. It is the Medical Officer of the Commonwealth. Since you hope that your Parents will be able to apply for onshore APVs, the MOC will be the doctor from Medibank Health Solutions in Sydney.

 

http://www.medibankhealth.com.au/

 

So please ensure that you think about this carefully. If the MOC doctor is not persuaded that your Dad meets the Health requirement because of his sight or because of some other problem associated with his diabetes, the visa might be refused. I'm not saying "Don't try" but I am saying, "Don't be too optimistic."

 

I appreciate that if you cannot get PR in Oz for your Parents, you might have to return to India in order to look after them there instead. Unfortunately, the Government accepts that this does happen in a significant minority of cases. The Govt are not minded to alter their visa rules because of it.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest Syed]

Thanks Gill for your help on this! Ya I do understand that its not a guaranteed way but I plan to give it a try

[Gollywobbler]

Thanks Gill for your help on this! Ya I do understand that its not a guaranteed way but I plan to give it a try

 

Hi Syed

 

Thanks and good luck, my friend.

 

The bit that you can deal with right now is your father's eyesight. In your shoes, I would get him the best possible medical advice straightaway, to make sure that his eyesight doesn't get any worse and that anything else relating to his diabetes has been brought under control fully before you try to do anything else.

 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/MRTA/2008/897.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=parent%20visa%20%20%204005%20%20%20diabetes

 

Please have a look at the Report of the MRT case in the link above. It seems that Mrs Thyagarajan had a number of medical problems. I have no idea whether the other problems described stemmed from or were related to her diabetes in some way - I don't know enough about Medicine to be able to judge that.

 

I hope that reading the MRT report will give you a clear idea about how "DIAC's mind," works, if you like, in cases where someone's medical condition is an issue.

 

Best wishes

 

Gill

[Guest Syed]

Thanks Gill for your help again and the report is very helpful to understand what DIAC's thinks

[Guest palonman]

Hi, I've been watching this fascinating thread for some time now and am up to speed on most aspects of an 804. We meet all the criterea needed for the visa (age, sponsorship, balance of family etc.) but would we be able to buy established property whilst on the long wait (or even prior to the move)? I think we could buy new but unsure as to the FIRB regulations regarding a 804 visa.

[Gollywobbler]

Hi, I've been watching this fascinating thread for some time now and am up to speed on most aspects of an 804. We meet all the criterea needed for the visa (age, sponsorship, balance of family etc.) but would we be able to buy established property whilst on the long wait (or even prior to the move)? I think we could buy new but unsure as to the FIRB regulations regarding a 804 visa.

 

Hello Palonman

 

With regard to the FIRB, please see the article below by Alan Collett of Go Matilda (thanks, Alan.)

 

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/article.cfm?articleid=485

 

Alan Collett is a Chartered Accountant as well as being a Registered Migration Agent so one can trust what he says about the FIRB. He is not guessing.

 

However, if you buy a house whilst you are on a Bridging Visa, you would not be eligible for the First Home Owners Grant:

 

http://www.firsthome.gov.au/

 

About 12-18 months ago, I heard that the Government intended to scrap the FHOG but I don't know whether that happened. I looked at the News articles on the Go Matilda website just now. There is nothing on there to say that the FHOG has been scrapped and I suspect that if it had been, Alan would have produced a News article about it.

 

http://www.gomatilda.com/news/index.cfm

 

I know people who are living in Oz on Bridging Visas, having applied for the sc 804 Aged Parents Visa. Some of them own their own homes. They wouldn't have been able to get the FHOG but apart from that they don't seem to have had any problems with buying homes.

 

Does this answer help with your query, please? If not, please shout at me and I'll try to do better!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited April 2, 2012 by Gollywobbler
typos

[Guest Squareman]

Hi Gill, have you been getting mails? Was beginning to think that your tooth had gotten the better of you!

 

Hope to chat soon

 

G

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Gill, have you been getting mails? Was beginning to think that your tooth had gotten the better of you!

 

Hope to chat soon

 

G

 

Hi G

 

I sent you an e-mail on Sunday night. Did you not receive it? Shall I send it again?

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[Guest Squareman]

Oh no! I didn't get it, Gill. That's weird!

 

Please resend it, will you? No rush though.......

 

Thanks

[Gollywobbler]

Oh no! I didn't get it, Gill. That's weird!

 

Please resend it, will you? No rush though.......

 

Thanks

 

Hi there

 

I have just re-sent the e-mail at 13:40 BST today. I have had problems with computer viruses although I had the machine professionally "cleaned" about a month ago with a new all-signing, all-dancing anti-virus system according to the computer wizard who sorted it out for me. His invoice (not cheap) says that he removed "deepseated malware including Trojans and Rootkits...." I've heard of Trojans but I have not heard of Rootkit viruses and none of my friends seem to know what Rootkits are, either. I looked on Wiki but I didn't understand their discussion about Rootkits. Besides, there is no point in hiring a very expensive dog and then trying to do the barking myself!

 

Please check your Spam bin etc just in case your machine is hiding my e-mail somewhere.

 

Please shout if you still don't receive it and, if so, please suggest some other way to do this. I am not a computer expert so I rely on other people to tell me what to do if the "obvious" does not work!

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited April 3, 2012 by Gollywobbler
addition

[Guest Candre]

Hi Gil,

 

This my first post. I have been reading this wonderful thread since morning and now it's 19.13 pm!! My whole Saturday is spent on one thread.... but totally worth it. Took so long because I jot down your every word, I looked up back and forth among this, DIAC site, and my own records. Just want to thank you for this very informative thread. You have cleared a lot of information that are buried or scattered in the website, you are great Gil.

 

After almost 10 years in Australia with the last few as a citizen, and my sister is getting her PR pretty soon (hopefully within this year), we plan to have our parents to move here on APV 804. We can't afford CPV, but with both of us sisters here, there won't be anyone to take care of the parents there. Their 676 visa has no 8503 condition, and will expire in March 2013. I don't want to risk their next visa containing 8503, so I am anxious to get them to come before it.

 

At first we agreed that before we at least have the Queue Date on hand, they shouldn't sell their house. But then, it would be very troublesome to try selling house from overseas when having only 90 days top on a Bridging Visa to travel there…..

 

But if I try to convince them to sell house first, I have to give them assurance that the application will be successful.

 

Say my sister’s PR is still not on hand when they apply, so she’s still on bridging visa herself. Then she can’t be a sponsor, and can’t be an Assurer of Support either - but can still she be counted for Balance of Family test?

 

Or if her PR is granted after 804 is lodged, can we then add her as a sponsor, an Assurer of Support, and for BoF test on an application that has been lodged?

 

Also Gil, I read all the posts and immi.gov.au but I am still confused on when 2^nd VAC and Bank Guarantee is lodged. It should be close to when visa is granted, but that will be very far away - in like 8 years (or 15 years according to the current info on immi website), is that correct?

 

I’d appreciate your help very much, many thanks in advance.

 

Cheers

Cath

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Cath

 

Please slow right down, honey.

 

It is impossible for you to be "planning" that your Parents should apply for an APV 804 unless and until your Parents are actually in Australia. The reason for this is because it is not lawful for anyone to travel to Australia on any sort of visa that permits temporary entry only if their real intention is to remain in Australia indefinitely - ie permanently.

 

So, right now, you are trying to think too far ahead, honey, and the risk with that is that you might confuse your Parents. Please remember that they will be required to complete a Passenger Disembarkation Card (PDC) before their flight lands in Australia. The PDCs are handed to the Immigration Control officials by the flight crew before the passengers are allowed to leave the aircraft. The PDC asks two pertinent questions, being:-

 

1. What is the purpose of your travel to Australia? and

2. What is the duration of your proposed stay in Australia?

 

I can't remember the exact wording but I have described the gist accurately. These cards must be completed truthfully because any attempt to mislead DIAC is a criminal offence in Australia. From what you have told me, you would be inciting your Parents to fib to DIAC about their real intentions, which I could not possibly condone and neither could you if you think about this properly, hon. Therefore the whole of your musing is completely premature unless and until your Parents have all four of their feet planted firmly on Australian soil.

 

So - you didn't mean what you have said in your post, now did you?!

 

Moving on, I am a bit confused by the part about you and your sister. Are you and she the ONLY two children that either of your Parents has? The Balance of Family Test has to be satisfied at the Time of Application (ToA) for one of the Parent visas as well as at the Time of Decision (ToD.) Please study the wording in the link below very carefully:-

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/39contributory_parent.htm#g

 

At the moment, your sister does not have a Permanent Resident visa so she counts as being one of the "overseas children." If there are only two children then that is OK because only 50% of the children need to be PRs of Australia. However if there are three or more children then the BoF Test does not appear to be met at the moment?

 

New legislation introduced on 01 July 2011 does now allow the identity of the Sponsor to be changed between the ToA and the ToD but why would you want to do this, please? I do not understand that bit of your post either.

 

You have then asked about the Assurance of Support and the Bond for that. The Bond is not a "bank guarantee." It is a cash deposit that is put into a fixed term interest account at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia but they do not issue any sort of bank guarantee in return for it. They merely confirm that they are holding on deposit the money that has been banked with them. You can't choose which Bank. It has to be the CBA, which is the Government's own Bank.

 

The AoS and the Bond are dealt with shortly before the visa is granted. This process cannot be hurried up because Centrelink insist on waiting for the request from the DIAC Case Officer handling the visa application. The CO does not trigger the AoS process until the CO is satisfied that there are no other problems with the visa application (eg a medical problem.)

 

The 2nd Instalment of the Visa Application Charge is the very final item to be requested before the visa is granted. (My own mother has a CPV. She was almost 85 when it was granted. My Aussie sister has some very ghoulish ideas at times! She grilled Mum's CO about what would happen if we paid the 2nd Instalment - the Big Money with a CPV - but Mum then died before entering Australia? Apparently the CO said that if that happened, DIAC would return the 2nd Instalment and they would also authorise the CBA and Centrelink to release the $10,000 AoS Bond. The AoS dies automatically on the death of the Parent. Luckily, it did not happen to us but I suppose that it probably does happen occasionally. I shouldn't think that any of the money is returned quickly, either, Government Departments being what they are!)

 

With regard to your Parents' house, which country is the house in, please? I happen to be a specialist Land lawyer but only in England & Wales. In E&W there is no problem with selling a house if the Vendor is not in the UK at the time but I can't say what the score might be in any other country.

But if I try to convince them to sell house first, I have to give them assurance that the application will be successful.

You can't provide any such assurance because you are not the Aussie Minister of Immigration, acting via his delegates at DIAC. Technically, the Minister is the only person who is empowered to decide whether or not to grant a visa.

 

If the house is in E&W (but, again, I can't speak about any other country) I'd recommend letting it out to Tenants for a few years. The rental income would boost your Parents' income if they are living in Oz on a Bridging Visa - which is an expensive way to live in Australia, as your sister is doubtless aware. My mother still owns the house that used to be our "family home" in England. She refuses to contemplate selling it during her own lifetime so we keep it permanently let to Tenants instead. We use the best specialist Lettings Agent in the local town and we have had no problems with the idea - but we do use the very best by way of a Lettings Agent, which I think is very important. I'm sure that he's the reason why we haven't had any problems. We pay him 15% of the rent plus VAT but he is worth every penny of that, in my view. In return, we get a full Management Service, so that if any repairs are needed, Richard organises the workmen etc and gets it all done. He also seems to find tenants who look after the house beautifully and always pay the rent on time. It is possible to get the service for about 10% + VAT locally but I don't think it is worth the risk of getting any other Lettings Agent get involved, frankly. I reckon that if the Agent is cheap then the Landlord gets a cheap (and probably nasty) service as well.

 

Cheers

 

Gill

Edited April 15, 2012 by Gollywobbler
typos