TTTF

3 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

Nothing informative. Last time they said I was within the processing time

Thanks for the update.. Probably will wait till this week as that is when the 28 day period will be over. I think we have been requested info on the same day 18/5.

11 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

Congrats, when did you submit English?

@Megrand1 @Jessi  Any update on your applications or complaints ? 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-05/australia-migrant-workers-temporary-visa-holders-coronavirus/12301394

News related to crisis support for temporary visa holders.

26 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

I hope that they won't ask for one. It well be unfair.

But they don't care anyway

Hopefully they don't ...yes that will be certainly unfair. 

17 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

Mine is expiring today

Dont tell me.. that now you will need to renew AFP... !

I hope they consider it  when the file was first assessed. 

5 minutes ago, Bil said:

.

Good that they are picking up files  for which request was raised..

1 minute ago, KMC2019 said:

Applied 22/5/19

Contacted yesterday for both primary and secondary english (already uploaded prior for both)

Secondary applicant holds one of the eligible passports to prove functional English and primary had IELTS (all 7 and above) that were still valid before applying for 887.  

Frustrating

Looks like they want to unnecessarily prove the applications are not decision ready in order to stick to their statement .. Other than English did not see any other major reason for a query with most of the applicants. This English is their issue for not providing complete and comprehensive information at the time of the application and applicants are facing the brunt.

2 minutes ago, Bil said:

Another one

Good to see they are picking up files  where additional information was requested within the 28 days timeline.. 

2 hours ago, Guil said:

WHooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooo

JUST GOT MY GRANT

Applied 16th May 2019

1st contact 28/05/2020 CO Jennifer (Adelaide) asked for Primary Applicant Proof of English

28/05/2020 Made a complaint by website and called them

29/05/2020 GRANT

Cheers Jennifer for changing you mind

Email below:

UNCLASSIFIED

Dear Mr xxxxx,

I am writing to advise you that I have located your TOEFL iBT English results that you provided for your 489 visa application. As these results were still valid when you lodged your 887 application there is no requirement to provide any further evidence of Functional English.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I will continue to assess your application.

Have a good day!

Kind regards

 

Jennifer

Position Number: xxxx

Decision Maker, Skilled Program Delivery SA (GSM)

Skilled and Family Visa Program Branch, Immigration Programs Division

Immigration and Settlement Services Group

Department of Home Affairs

Email: skilled.support@homeaffairs.gov.au

Website: www.homeaffairs.gov.au 

Great fight back.. Congratulations. 

Just thinking, why can't  these smart ppl locate our educational transcripts as part of 489 applications,rather than creating a bureaucratic process around it , when the evidence will remain same. 

56 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

Thanks a lot

Good... At least there was acknowledgement of the mistake... the correction clearly states that ..

But who will be held responsible for the delay due to incorrect information provided  is the question!  Ideally the change should be applicable from the date it is made.  

2 hours ago, Guil said:

Applied 16th May 2019

1st contact 28th  May 2020 - asked for Primary Applicant Proof of English

Called them and after 35min call they said NOW is necessary to attach Proof of English (Functional), below is the email I received after my call

"Thank you for contacting the department in regards to providing evidence of Functional
English.
All applicants over 18 years of age are required to meet the English language requirement at
time of decision. If you have an English language test result for a test taken less than three
years prior to the lodgement of the 887 evidencing at least competent English please provide
a copy.
I note that you have completed a Bachelor overseas. If you hold an award (being a degree,
higher degree, diploma or trade certificate) that required at least two years of full-time study
or training and all instruction (including instruction received in other courses for which you
were allowed credit) for that award was conducted in English.
If your Bachelor was completed in English please provide evidence."

Agreed in the  interest of time(even though it doesn't make sense)

Why it is not mentioned on the website should be the question..

1. Why the process is been made so complicated for all applicants, should be the push back question, so do you mean that the website does not provide complete and comprehensive information ?
2. Who will be held responsible for delay due this requirement ?

One more thing... I was reading the letter received from DHA, it talks about all what a applicant needs to be doing and timeframe for the response..with appropriate explanation, 

Just now, Megrand1 said:

I know but it is what it is

bureaucratic process! Hopefully they pick up within 28 days and grant visas for all applicants where such questions were raised. 

12 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

That's almost everything. The rest is useless general information.

It was a complaint

Being a complaint it at least needs a basic explanation addressing the question raised,rather than a mere acknowledgement.  

12 hours ago, Megrand1 said:

From the first sight, it's not still a requirement.

It's said "if, in order to be granted a visa, a person has been assessed as". The main word IF. This IF is not specified anywhere for 887 so it's not applicable to 887 until is is specified clearly.

I might be wrong but it's what I see from the document.

Let us know when you get a official response,thanks.

56 minutes ago, ASDFG said:

Hello Everyone, I am in a confused and difficult situation here and the best person to help is you are.

 

I am on 489 visa I have completed 1 year here in April'2020. I am working in IT everything is good. We want to plan a baby now and extend our family however the private medical covers are very costly. 

 

I want to know that what would you suggest?

Should I wait for 1  another year and after applying the PR will we be medically covered ?

what are the options do we have or people usually go for ?

What would be your suggestions?

 

Your help and time will be influencing our decision, Thanks in advance

 

 

It all depends on personal circumstances for you and your partner in particular age,health conditions etc  Suggestion would be such crucial things in life cannot be dependent of a visa or its processing timeline.  Visa and all related activities will go on as per its timeline and you wont have any control on it. 

The practical solution is to find a way to manage and budget  appropriate and required health cover. 

1 hour ago, Megrand1 said:

It says class SP which is 489.

This could be the answer we are looking for and here is the link - https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2017L00720

As per this,  a visa grant is only possible if the case officer has assessed a valid evidence of Functional English (FE). This requirement is not subject to any particular visa. Refer to point (a) which means they can apply to any visa which is in process to be granted.

In relation Primary applicants asked for FE - Looks like the case officer was unable to determine the valid evidence of functional english and hence raised the request for primary applicants in all the cases received.  Please look back at your individual applications, in context to what is stated in the legislation. 

Potential Reasons -

1. Expired English language results - ILETS/PTE etc
2. Transcripts, certificates relevant documentation provided at 489 application does not evidenced about medium of language of the program or course clearly.
3. Delayed processing time has also played a vital role in this situation. If the 887 applications are processed in a timely manner It might not have got  into a situation of expired english results. 

Having said that, I still cannot see any valid reason for this reqruiement to be not stated as part of 887 visa checklist.. It needs to be specified even though it may not  be applied to all cases. 

On applicants receiving direct grants, There could have been some form of documentation submitted (Please note we do not know all the application details of an applicant) which could have evidenced  functional english requirement for the case officer. 

Apart from this I did not find any co-relation here. 

To conclude, It is fairly understood that it is an requirement under the Act and will need to evidenced if it is asked for.

Procedures or standards for determining that a person has functional English

            For the purposes of the definition of functional English in subsection 3(1) of the Act, I specify that:

(a)        if, in order to be granted a visa, a person has been assessed as                        having functional English:

            (i)         in accordance with a test; or

            (ii)        following the provision of evidence;

            in the form as may be required from time to time by operation                       of subsection 5(2) of the Migration Act 1958; or

             (b)       where paragraph 7(a) of this instrument does not apply and the person has been assessed as having achieved Level 3 proficiency or above under the Australian Core Skills Framework (as in force or existing from time to time) across each of the core skills of learning, reading, writing and oral communication;

the person is taken to have functional English.

31 minutes ago, April 2019 said:

I applied on18 April 2019

today i got an email for submission of another documents

1 AFP

2 PCC

3 Proof of English ability language for primary applicant.  

Can i give bachelor degree as a proof

One more to the list... dont worry..

you can provide bachelor's degree.. Refer to my post on page 1946. That will help.

Just now, Kaysavan said:

Sorry, but I don't think it's true. I've been through the specific legislation for 887 and it talks about functional English requirement for dependents only.

 

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as this will put to rest a lot of apprehension we've had about this topic. 

Let's wait for an official response.

Just now, Jessi said:

The department have acknowledged my complaint & had said that they had forwarded same to concerned department.If I receive any news will update in group.I don’t know how much time they will take.

Same old bureaucratic process..They should typically respond back in 3 weeks. lets wait..Can't do much.

6 minutes ago, Jessi said:

If you read it thoroughly it only tell number of ways you can prove functional English but it’s written in technical terms. Apart from my agent I had discussed it with Mark also even he said there is no requirement as such.

Yes exactly what i was looking for..as website only talks about a degree/primary secondary schooling.. but not how it is evidenced. 

Hopefully the complaints raised .. will bring some clarity on this topic.

51 minutes ago, Megrand1 said:

Isn't it visa 186?

nope ... this more to do what kind of evidence can provided for functional english.. 

1 hour ago, Kaysavan said:

Thanks, I would prefer that too. Its been just over a week since I submitted my complaint and waiting to hear back from them. 

I just feel that as 887 applicants, we have been pushed around too much. Firstly, with having to wait so long for our cases to be picked up, and then we have to deal with obnoxious requests by CO's. So if Functional English is a requirement, it needs to be updated in the legislation first and then on the website.

On this topic, if anyone is still struggling with ILETS/PTE dates to provide evidence , A degree transcript should work in this case. 

Hopefully they get rid of this unsaid requirement. 

Keep this group posted on the response received on complaints raised. 

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/mr1994227/s5.17.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=Functional English#disp3

MIGRATION REGULATIONS 1994 - REG 5.17

Prescribed evidence of English language proficiency (Act, s 5(2)(b))

                   For the purposes of paragraph 5(2)(b) of the Act (dealing with whether a person has  functional English ), the evidence referred to in each of the following paragraphs is prescribed evidence of the English language proficiency of a person:

                     (a)  evidence specified by the Minister in an instrument in writing for this paragraph;

                     (c)  evidence that:

                              (i)  the person holds an award (being a degree, a higher degree, a diploma or a trade certificate) that required at least 2 years of full-time study or training; and

                             (ii)  all instruction (including instruction received in other courses for which the person was allowed credit) for that award was conducted in English;

                      (f)  evidence that the person has been assessed as having  functional English  by the provider of a course that is an approved English course for the purposes of section 4 of the Immigration (Education) Act 1971 ;

                      (j)  if:

                             (ii)  evidence referred to in paragraph (a) cannot be provided by the person; and

                            (iii)  it is not reasonably practicable for the person to attend at a place where, or time when, he or she could be subjected to a test mentioned in paragraph (f);

                            evidence that the person has been determined by the Minister, on the basis of an interview with the person, to have  functional English .

7 minutes ago, Jessi said:

Your University degree & transcript is more than enough .

I did the same.. should suffice.

 I had also requested my college for the letter even though was not confident to receive it in time considering the current restrictions.  Fortunately got it last week and have uploaded that as well. So wait and watch now. 

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

FINALLY GRANTED

Application date: 18/02/2019

CO contact : 11/05/2020

Asking for English ability for main and secondary applicants. I have had uploaded functional English for secondary applicant only previously. I uploaded it again and uploaded OET test results 'with B in all sections' that was dated 3.5 years ago. It was valid at the time of application but not valid now. I complained twice after CO contact explaining that Functional English is not a requirement for main applicant

Grant date 25/05/2020  CO Wilson 

Congratulations... two weeks is a good turn around time after a query.

46 minutes ago, Moksha said:

That was the reply I have got on functional English for main applicant complaint

 have queried why you have been requested to provide evidence that you have functional English in association with this application.

 

I note that you have already provided evidence that Ms Elashry has functional English and your concerns regarding the processing of your application have been brought to the attention of the manager of the relevant business area.

 

With respect to your application I can confirm that you are required to provide evidence of having functional English for this application.

 

For applicants who were aged 18 years or over when application is made decision makers are required to assess whether there is evidence that the applicant:

1             Has functional English as defined in legislation; or

2             Paid a second instalment VAC in respect of the provisional visa held at the time the application for the subclass 887 visa was lodged.

 

Applicants who were over 18 years of age at time of lodgement who do not satisfy either of these criteria are liable for payment of a second instalment visa application charge before a visa can be granted.

 

This requirement is specified in migration legislation and we have requested that the information available to applicants on the Department’s website is updated to reflect this.

 

The English language test results you have previously provided cannot be considered in assessing this criteria given their age.  Information about how you can evidence having functional English is available on the Department’s website.

See: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-support/meeting-our-requirements/english-language/functional-english

 

The Department is committed to service improvement and your feedback provides us with information to help improve the quality of our services. I would like to thank you for taking the time to provide the Department with this feedback.

 

Regards

Thanks for sharing.. It would have been so easy if this was specified in the checklist.. Would have saved valuable time of everyone involved. 

All applicants waiting for the clarity, here it is in black and white. Better sort out your applications. 

But there will be always a side, does it make logical sense to apply this requirement for a extended pathway. May be for some other day !

In all Good work in getting the answers at least.