ATTENTION!!!! 175/176/475 visa applications suspended!!!!

[Gollywobbler]

Hi everyone,

 

We've been having a few problems with applying for a 475 visa. We applying on the wife's job which is a PLanning & Policy Manager. To cut a long story short we submitted our application a couple of months ago, only for it to be rejected as we hadn't taken an IELTS test. Our agency conveniently forgot to tell us about that. Anyway, the wife went and took this test last weekend, although on Friday we were obviously greeted with the news regarding suspension of GSM applications.

So we chased around to gather all the information that we needed to re-submit but because of the issues with the online application process we submitted our application by email. We have proof that our email was delivered at 11.51pm on Friday night!

 

Now, we contacted DIAC on Monday to check whether they had received our application and they said that it would take 7-10 days to confirm this. However, through the agency we have been told that DIAC would not accept email applications. Confused!!

 

There are two things here. Firstly, if this is correct then we will appeal through the Global Feedback Unit.

 

Gollywobbler, you said this the other day, "The on-line system went down at 11.30pm on Friday, I gather, for maintenance which turned out to have been scheduled. That alone will lead to claims of unfairness and threats of litigation, for sure. " How did you come across to know this? Was it posted somewhere? It might be useful evidence that we need.

 

Sorry for all the questions, but it feels that we've been screwed over twice now with this application. We're both pretty dissolutioned at the moment. Any advice that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

 

Rich & Susie.

 

Hi Rich & Susie

 

This all sounds like a prize muddle to me. Let us try to unravel it bit by bit, I suggest.

 

Gollywobbler, you said this the other day, "The on-line system went down at 11.30pm on Friday, I gather, for maintenance which turned out to have been scheduled. That alone will lead to claims of unfairness and threats of litigation, for sure. " How did you come across to know this? Was it posted somewhere? It might be useful evidence that we need.

GSM 175/176/475 last minute applicants - please add your details - Page 2 - PomsInOz Forum

 

Please see Claireg's post at the top of Page 2 of the link above. Claire says:

 

However, when I was looking at the Immi site yesterday I noticed that they had the following info under their "Planned Maintenance Info":

 

Planned system maintenance

 

To allow us to continually improve our systems, online services and products, there will be planned system maintenance on the following days:

 

Friday 7 May 2010

From 11.30 pm Friday 7 May to 1.00 am Saturday 8 May 2010 AEDT (GMT + 10).

 

The following systems may become unavailable during the above times:

 

eLodgement (eVisa and Citizenship)

Should you receive a 'Server 500' error message during this time you are encouraged to try again after 1.00 am on Saturday 8 May 2010 AEDT (GMT + 10).

 

So, even though they were saying MIDNIGHT to get the apps in, they really meant 11.30 pm. So glad I didn't cut it too fine and get booted off the system half way through or even worse, just before the review at the end.

Plainly the bods in charge of publishing the Minister's announcement didn't bother to tell the bods who planned the routine maintenance NOT to do the routine maintenance that night.

 

There will be an ALMIGHTY row over this, for sure. Andrew Metcalfe is the boss of DIAC. He speaks directly with the Minister for Immi. However as DIAC's boss, why was Metcalfe too grand to communicate with his skivvies in DIAC's IT Department as well? It seems to me that the buck for the buggerup stops with Metcalfe and that he should be made to take the rap for it.

 

There are two things here. Firstly, if this is correct then we will appeal through the Global Feedback Unit.

You can and should complain through the GFU but I would not leave it at that. If you are from Europe anywhere, I would take it up with David Wilden as well. Mr Wilden is DIAC's Regional Director for Europe. He is based at the Aussie High Commission in London.

 

Before Mr Wilden came to London in about May 2009, he set up and then ran DIAC's Global Feedback Unit. Nobody knows better than he does how the GFU ought to work, because he devised the whole thing.

 

I've met David Wilden at a meeting in London in November 2009. Since he left Australia, the GFU - which used to be exceptionally good - has become firkin hopeless, frankly. I've moaned to him about it though he is probably too far away to get results from the GFU nowadays

 

To cut a long story short we submitted our application a couple of months ago, only for it to be rejected as we hadn't taken an IELTS test.

That might well have been an unlawful visa refusal by the sound of things. Are you aware of the Berenguel decision which, from memory, was handed down on 5th March 2010? The Court said that needing an IELTS result is a time of decision requirement but it is not a time of application requirement. DIAC have since changed their rules accordingly:

 

What's New? Recent Changes in General Skilled Migration

 

To refuse a visa wrongly - whilst sticking to the application fee for it, no doubt - and then to have the second visa application unable to be submitted because of a SNAFU in the communications arrangements within DIAC sounds like meat on the bone of threatened litigation to me, not the substance of a complaint via the GFU.

 

Why did/does your wife need an IELTS anyway? "Susie Butler" sounds like a name that belongs to a native English speaker? Does she have an American passport or something like that, please?

 

Our agency conveniently forgot to tell us about that.

That is negligence on the part of the Agency and why haven't they argued with DIAC on the basis of Berenguel? What is wrong with the idea of getting DIAC to vacate their first visa refusal so as to get the first application back on track for you?

 

So we chased around to gather all the information that we needed to re-submit but because of the issues with the online application process we submitted our application by email. We have proof that our email was delivered at 11.51pm on Friday night!

Right. So did you try to do a submission by e-mail by yourselves or did the Agency try to do the e-mail lodgement?

 

Now, we contacted DIAC on Monday to check whether they had received our application and they said that it would take 7-10 days to confirm this.

It tends to take 5 minutes if the relevant asses are kicked..... However, do DIAC accept that an e-mail submission will suffice when their own SNAFU has caused their on-line system to be taken off-line at the crucial time? My guess is that they will accept attempts to submit by e-mail on this occasion, considering that they are responsible for the SNAFU.

 

However, through the agency we have been told that DIAC would not accept email applications.

This is the, "Jonah - Prophet of Doom - Agency," is it, LOL? They sound as if they don't know their ass from their elbow to me.

 

Could you please clarify the exact facts for me?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

[Guest Rich&Susie]

Hi Gill,

 

thanks so much for the reply - I will answer all in line starting SB (as I am 'the wife!)

 

 

This all sounds like a prize muddle to me. Let us try to unravel it bit by bit, I suggest.

 

Quote:

Gollywobbler, you said this the other day, "The on-line system went down at 11.30pm on Friday, I gather, for maintenance which turned out to have been scheduled. That alone will lead to claims of unfairness and threats of litigation, for sure. " How did you come across to know this? Was it posted somewhere? It might be useful evidence that we need.

GSM 175/176/475 last minute applicants - please add your details - Page 2 - PomsInOz Forum

 

Please see Claireg's post at the top of Page 2 of the link above. Claire says:

 

Quote:

However, when I was looking at the Immi site yesterday I noticed that they had the following info under their "Planned Maintenance Info":

 

Planned system maintenance

 

To allow us to continually improve our systems, online services and products, there will be planned system maintenance on the following days:

 

Friday 7 May 2010

From 11.30 pm Friday 7 May to 1.00 am Saturday 8 May 2010 AEDT (GMT + 10).

 

The following systems may become unavailable during the above times:

 

eLodgement (eVisa and Citizenship)

Should you receive a 'Server 500' error message during this time you are encouraged to try again after 1.00 am on Saturday 8 May 2010 AEDT (GMT + 10).

 

So, even though they were saying MIDNIGHT to get the apps in, they really meant 11.30 pm. So glad I didn't cut it too fine and get booted off the system half way through or even worse, just before the review at the end.

Plainly the bods in charge of publishing the Minister's announcement didn't bother to tell the bods who planned the routine maintenance NOT to do the routine maintenance that night.

 

There will be an ALMIGHTY row over this, for sure. Andrew Metcalfe is the boss of DIAC. He speaks directly with the Minister for Immi. However as DIAC's boss, why was Metcalfe to grand to communicate with his skivvies in DIAC's IT Department as well? It seems to me that the buck for the buggerup stops with Metcalfe and that he should be made to take the rap for it.

 

Quote:

There are two things here. Firstly, if this is correct then we will appeal through the Global Feedback Unit.

You can and should complain through the GFU but I would not leave it at that. If you are from Europe anywhere, I would take it up with David Wilden as well. Mr Wilden is DIAC's Regional Director for Europe. He is based at the Aussie High Commission in London.

 

Before Mr Wilden came to London in about May 2009, he set up and then ran DIAC's Global Feedback Unit. Nobody knows better than he does how the GFU ought to work, because he devised the whole thing.

 

I've met David Wilden at a meeting in London in November 2009. Since he left Australia, the GFU - which used to be exceptionally good - has become firkin hopeless, frankly. I've moaned to him about it though he is probably too far away to get results from the GFU nowadays

 

SB - Iin addition to logging through GFU we have gone through the processing unit, the admin unit, the policy unit and now we are up to the legal department. We spoke to the cheif lawyer of DIAC Jackie Davis this am, provided the evidence of the attempted lodgment and also the email all in by 12 and that we belived the site was purposly taken down. We are intending to speak to them again on monday first thing, and this new detail will definalty help. We werent aware of David Wilden - We will call him on monday via the main embasy no. also unless you can advise of a better way to contact him?

Quote:

To cut a long story short we submitted our application a couple of months ago, only for it to be rejected as we hadn't taken an IELTS test.

That might well have been an unlawful visa refusal by the sound of things. Are you aware of the Berenguel decision which, from memory, was handed down on 5th March 2010? The Court said that needing an IELTS result is a time of decision requirement but it is not a time of application requirement. DIAC have since changed their rules accordingly:

 

What's New? Recent Changes in General Skilled Migration

 

To refuse a visa wrongly - whilst sticking to the application fee for it, no doubt - and then to have the second visa application unable to be submitted because of a SNAFU in the communications arrangements within DIAC sounds like meat on the bone of threatened litigation to me, not the substance of a complaint via the GFU.

 

Why did/does your wife need an IELTS anyway? "Susie Butler" sounds like a name that belongs to a native English speaker? Does she have an American passport or something like that, please?

 

SB - it was our aplication for the SA state sponsership that was rejected as not a full and valid application 8 weeks after our visa agency submitted it! According to the sponsership dept for SA it is now mandatory for everyone, english or not to have taken the test! (I am english) Our visa team said it was a rule change they weren't aware of. So it wasnt the DIAC application that was turned down, does that make a difference? and No never heard of Berenguel decision, can this help us in light of it being the sponsorship bit? Quote:

Our agency conveniently forgot to tell us about that.

That is negligence on the part of the Agency and why haven't they argued with DIAC on the basis of Berenguel? What is wrong with the idea of getting DIAC to vacate their first visa refusal so as to get the first application back on track for you?

 

SB - does this statement still apply as it it ws the SA sponsorship that was turned back?

 

Quote:

So we chased around to gather all the information that we needed to re-submit but because of the issues with the online application process we submitted our application by email. We have proof that our email was delivered at 11.51pm on Friday night!

Right. So did you try to do a submission by e-mail by yourselves or did the Agency try to do the e-mail lodgement?

 

SB - agency did it. we have a screen shot of the error message showing 07/05/10 and we have the email aplication the agency sent in at 11:54pm. We have sent both of these to DIAC legal and policy as evidence.

 

Quote:

Now, we contacted DIAC on Monday to check whether they had received our application and they said that it would take 7-10 days to confirm this.

It tends to take 5 minutes if the relevant asses are kicked..... However, do DIAC accept that an e-mail submission will suffice when their own SNAFU has caused their on-line system to be taken off-line at the crucial time? My guess is that they will accept attempts to submit by e-mail on this occasion, considering that they are responsible for the SNAFU.

 

SB - unfortunalty no. they say that their regulations and guidelines mean email is not a valid format and system availiblity isnt a reason to change. however, it is with review with the legal team, hence us going direct to them. I am guessing that although no one we spoke to admits the system was taken down on purpose (I will reiterate this now we have the detail) this maybe why they are considering it.

 

Quote:

However, through the agency we have been told that DIAC would not accept email applications.

This is the, "Jonah - Prophet of Doom - Agency," is it, LOL? They sound as if they don't know their ass from their elbow to me.

 

SB - unfortunalty we are really in this mess becasue the agency has dropped off twice. 1 they didnt know the rule change about SA sponsership and IELTS (if its valid) and 2 they didnt get the application on the system swiftly, and tried to cram in orders at the last minute. as you can imagine we are royaly pissed off with them, don't feel we can trust them, and wonder what we are paying for!

 

Could you please clarify the exact facts for me?

 

Many thanks

 

Gill

 

SB - thank you so much for you help, advice and time Gill we really appreciate it, if you can give us further guidance or ammunition that would be brilliant.

 

thanks again

Susie & Rich

[Gollywobbler]

Hi Susie Butler

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Jackie Davis is not DIAC's chief lawyer. A lady called Robyn Bicket heads up DIAC's in-house legal team. So who is Jackie Davis? Is she in charge of the legalities of e-visa lodgements, the legalities of skilled visa applications or what, do you know?

 

With regard to the "Planned Maintenance" message, I'm not a migration agent and I live in the UK. Because I'm not a migration agent and I've never tried to emigrate to Oz myself, it follows that I have never tried to make an application for a skilled visa, either on paper or on-line so I don't know anything about what the on-line system involves.

 

Added to that, I was out all day on 7th May. I was busy doing my day job and did not have time to look at Poms in Oz till about 8pm that night (UK time.) Midnight AEST was at about 3pm UK time, so by the time I read about what had been happening it was all over and finished with anyway.

 

Therefore I did not see the message that Claireg quoted. I would suggest that you join Poms in Oz and swap notes with her about that bit.

 

However it does sound to me as if the IT boys had been planning to take the system off-line that night for some while and it was taken off-line at exactly the time they had said, apparently. It does seem to me as if Metcalfe and his little coterie of DIAC grandees were so busy being grand that they forgot to consult the IT boys about anything except getting the Minister's message to the world published on the DIAC website as soon as possible once the wording of it had been settled. I suspect that nobody thought about the fact that the DIAC website does get LOTS of routine maintenance and it is nearly always taken off-line (or the relevant bits of it are) whilst the maintenance is done.

 

Poms in Oz is only a tiny little database by comparison. However experience has shown that if Cerberus1, who is the owner and looks after the IT side of making it work, wants to do anything major to Poms in Oz, it is better to take it off-line altogether for a few hours whilst he does whatever needs to be done. If it stays on-line, it tends to crash without warning, data gets lost and so forth.

 

I think the gist is that Cerberus1 does a manual, special back-up of the whole system and then takes the forum off-line completely as soon as the back-up is done. With the forum off-line, there is no risk of any new data being added until the whole thing is ready to go back on-line.

 

I know zilch about IT so I am not the right person to ask about this but my impression is that DIAC's IT guys are equally cautious about the DIAC website and about all the things that the DIAC computer does on-line.

 

By now, the DIAC legal team have heard about the planned maintenance and the e-visa form being taken off line 30 minutes before the Witching Hour of midnight AEST. Lots of migration agents were caught out by it and so lots of them will have hit the phones to DIAC's HQ first thing on Monday 10th, complaining about what happened and demanding to know why such a cock-up had been permitted to happen.

 

Obviously there is a risk that if you tell the bod who is going to do the planned maintenance that he must not do it because.... that bod might ring up a newspaper or two as soon as your back is turned. However not telling him anything because you are worried about possible leaks leads to cock-ups of the type that occurred.

 

There are suggestions that the Commonwealth Ombudsman should get involved with what happened at 11.30pm AEST that night because what happened has disadvantaged SO MANY people such as yourselves. Hundreds of people were disadvantaged, not just a handful, and the Ombudsman has more clout than any of you have.

 

Home - Commonwealth Ombudsman

 

Please send me an e-mail as soon as you can. I will reply to your PM and give you my e-mail address. Once I have your e-mail addy, I will e-mail David Wilden with a copy to you. He obviously ought to know that a lot of the people on his own patch were prejudiced as a direct result of what happened in Canberra so he ought to investigate it and sort out a fair solution with his colleagues in Canberra.

 

it was our aplication for the SA state sponsership that was rejected as not a full and valid application 8 weeks after our visa agency submitted it! According to the sponsership dept for SA it is now mandatory for everyone, english or not to have taken the test! (I am english) Our visa team said it was a rule change they weren't aware of. So it wasnt the DIAC application that was turned down, does that make a difference? and No never heard of Berenguel decision, can this help us in light of it being the sponsorship bit?

Berenguel is irrelevant on the facts which you describe. It has no impact on an application for State sponsorship.

 

However, the rest of what you have said above does not make sense!

 

You can download the SA List of occupations via their website.

 

Make The Move :: General skilled migration

 

The List is dated January 2010. Your OH says that you are a Policy and Planning Manager. Ever since January 2010, SA have demanded an English score of 7.0 or above for this occupation. Please read the List itself and the rubric at the top of the List.

 

SA are famous for the fact that they do not make retrospective changes, so when was your application for State sponsorship made? If the application to SA was made on or after 1st Jan 2010, an IELTS score of 7.0 or more in each of the 4 modules of the IELTS General Test was indeed required.

 

How can a migration agent claim to be "unaware" of a special requirement which is spelt out as plainly as a pikestaff on SA's List of Occupations?

 

Is this agent of yours a Registered Migration Agent?

 

https://www.mara.gov.au/Consumer-Information/default.aspx

 

https://www.mara.gov.au/agent/ARSearch.aspx?FolderID=394

 

If searching for your agent's family name does not produce anything, please hit the down arrow in the relevant box and do the search via searching for the name of the business instead.

 

When you e-mail me, please tell me the name of the agency and the name of the person who you have been dealing with. We need to get to the bottom of this because an RMA should have been howling at you to do an IELTS test ever since early January 2010 if doing one was necessary.

 

That is all for the moment, but I would suggest that you make it you own business to become clued up yourselves from now on instead of waiting for your migration agent to be "unaware" of something else that might scupper you in the future. The information on Poms in Oz is technically accurate for the most part and it is up to date. Several RMAs contribute to PiO and the ones who do so are the best in the game. If an RMA is substandard or the person is not an RMA, I make their lives a misery until they stop interfering with Poms in Oz, frankly. It works and it never takes long to work because I can make the duff ones look less than a millimetre high, which gets rid of them quickly.

 

Migration Issues - PomsInOz Forum

 

Cheers

 

Gill

[HEAPS GOOD !!!]

Can i just say that Gollywobbler you are an absolute legend and a fountain of immigration knowledge.

 

I sit here reading your posts thinking god who needs to call DIAC.....or maybe DIAC has a direct line into your house...lol.

 

Keep up the good work and a thank you very much for all the info you share on the forum.

 

HG

[Guest ista]

Hi Gill, thanks for your reply,

We are already in Adelaide and have been here since Jan 2009 on a 457 visa. Richard works at the RAH and with MedSTAR, but they are unable to offer employment sponsorship at this stage due to Rich not being a consultant yet. (The MBSA have decided that they want him to resit his final exam and last 2 years of training, which is normal so we are led to believe) However, he has completed his full skills assessment programme and is fully registered with both the AMC and ANZCA (he is an anaesthetist by speciality).

The main problem we had was not being eligible for an onshore visa and then due to points not being immediately eligible for the 175 visa. We are 5 points short and need to take IELTS, which Rich is struggling to fit in due to his hectic on call schedule!!! So, the 176 seemed the perfect option for us and after speaking with immiSA they said to go for it. We lodged last wednesday and delivered the hard copies by hand to the office, then on friday afternoon I rang them and was told that our application had been passed onto the general skills migration team but we might not see a change on the web status for several days and to ring back next friday. She never mentioned anything about them being suspended and I only found out when my friend txt me to say it had been on the news. Confused is an understatement as we don't really know where we stand. The only good thing I suppose is that our current visa lasts until August 2012, so even if we have to wait full term, we should only have to depart Australia to validate the PR visa!

 

Ps, aeromedical emergency retrieval registrar is Rich's official title when flying with MedSTAR. He is part of the emergency rescue squad that flies out in the helicopter (or lear jet plane if its really rural) to scenes of accidents and other life threatening incidents all over SA where land ambulances would provide a slower service or are totally inaccessible by road.

 

Thanks again

Julia x

 

 

Hi Julia,

 

I hope you guys get everything sorted - would love to hear how it all pans out for you! My partner and I are hoping to go to Sydney in Jan 2011, for my partner to do a similar job to MedSTAR hopefully (with either Careflight or NSW Ambulance Service) - does your husband enjoy it?? My partner (Pete) is so excited about the idea of working on the helicopter! If we like it out there, we'll be looking to stay and maybe apply for PR somehow or other so would be very useful to hear how you sort it out (as I'm sure you will!!). Pete's currently a trainee in anaesthetics/intensive care (here in the UK) and it seems that the anaesthetics route is a bit harder in Oz...he's not sure he can face doing the final exam again - is your husband going to do it?? Hope it all goes well anyway!

 

Also, just a quick question, you mentioned above that Rich is registered with the AMC - is that as a specialist? How has he done that if he has yet to pass the exams? Sorry if that's a really dumb question but I'm sure we're going to be faced with similar obstacles in a year or two's time so would be great to know what's comin'!

 

Best of luck, hope it all gets sorted for you.

Kate

[krittim]

Hi Friends!!

 

I've applied for Skilled - Regional Sponsored (VF 475) visa in South Australia; Lodgement date was 03 May 2010. Now on online its showing, "Application received - processing commenced". ACSO Code: 2231-11 that is "Systems Manager" .

 

Just after reading the above info, does it mean that my application is Suspended as well?? another point is Can any one please tell me according to the new visa processing priority list where Subclass 475 resides??

 

 

Regards..