Guest garlic--bread

Who am I on about?

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Hi all, I saw a thread on here a bit since and I can't for the life of me find it. Tried searching etc, you name it, can't find it!

     

    The post may have been about migration agents and the like. One person was mentioned who does all the legwork in finding jobs etc, they also do a meet and greet service (which doesn't really apply to me as my big sis should be there to do that) organise pet transfer, bank accounts etc, in fact more or less everything! I just cannot find the post or remember the fellows name but he was well recommended.

     

    That's the issue I'm facing at the moment, plenty agents have offered to get me a visa but not many do the job search facility. I am currently looking myself but the jobs I'm after seem a bit thin on the ground! Not to mention most say you have to already have a visa in place.

     

    Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

     

    Russ

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Hi think i've found the guy in question, it's Tony mooney. Any one any info?

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    Hi Russ

     

    I'm very sorry about the delay in responding to you. I have been up to my ears with other things in my spare time. However today I've been parked at home with a face like a squirrel - one side of it is so swollen that I went to the doctor this morning, thinking I must have caught mumps somehow. The doctor said it was a tooth abscess, not mumps, so I then had to go to the dentist. Who has prescribed antibiotics and says that the swelling should go down overnight. I hope so because my face looks lopsided at the moment!

     

    Bridges and Tony Mooney are NOT migration agents. Both of them say that they can organise jobs in Australia but Jamie Smith of Hire A Migrant says the same thing:

     

    Key People

     

    Jamie is better known than the others because he is involved with several different internet forums.

     

    ALL of these recruitment agents are very expensive. I have no idea whether any of them are partocularly effective.

     

    What is your occupation, please, and how old are you? That is, what is the date on which you will turn 45? Why do you need an employer sponsored visa instead of an ordinary GSM visa, please?

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Hi - Gilll, you might know the definitive answer to this - when a friend of mine here applied for a license as a recruitment consultant, I thought one of the conditions was that you are not allowed to charge the job seeker any money for the service: that's why most recruitment companies I know of take their commission from the employing company instead. How does that work for companies such as Bridges and Hire a Migrant? Do they get round it by saying they are charging for the relocation package rather than the job-finding?

     

    Just curious and I hope your mouth gets better soon Gill. I had a tooth absess when we went on holiday to the Gold Coast last time - it was total agony so I have every sympathy for you!

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Hi Gill,

     

    Sounds like you're not having a fun time at the moment with the abscess, hope it gets better soon :)

     

    To be honest out of all the agents I've spoken to they say It would be difficult to get over to Australia on my own steam and that I should pursue the RSMS visa. I'm 44 years old and 45 in September this year. I'm a trained Production shift manager/Team leader/supervisor with a disposable medical supply manufacturer and I've been with them for nearly 11 years. I have run a shift of upto 40 people during that time. I have got the experience but not much in terms of qualifications ie, work based NVQ's in team leading and others, I'm also part way through a course on Lean manufacturing (6 sigma) but this has been put on hold by the company due to funds.

     

    I haven't heard about Jamie Smith before so quite interested in what he can do.

     

    Thanks for replying :)

     

    Russ

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    Hi - Gilll, you might know the definitive answer to this - when a friend of mine here applied for a license as a recruitment consultant, I thought one of the conditions was that you are not allowed to charge the job seeker any money for the service: that's why most recruitment companies I know of take their commission from the employing company instead. How does that work for companies such as Bridges and Hire a Migrant? Do they get round it by saying they are charging for the relocation package rather than the job-finding?

     

    Just curious and I hope your mouth gets better soon Gill. I had a tooth absess when we went on holiday to the Gold Coast last time - it was total agony so I have every sympathy for you!

     

    Hi Diane

     

    My mouth is now miles better, thanks. Antibiotics are brilliant for clobbering the worst of the symptoms within a matter of hours.

     

    I think that someone like Jamie Smith is probably what I would call a "head hunter" rather than an ordinary recuitment agent. That is, Jamie works for the job-candidate, not for the employer. According to Jamie, 75% of jobs are never advertised because the job itself is only either created or a vacancy filled if the right candidate turns up and the employer decides that the candidate is too good to miss.

     

    Jamie charges the prospective employee the equivalent of 3 months' salary. He says that that is how long it would usually take the job-hunter to find his own job once he arrives in Australia. Jamie "adds value" because his own efforts save time and in some cases he also has to choose the employer according to whether or not the employer would be able to sponsor the job-candidate for a visa and then he has to persuade some of the employers to get involved with a visa as well as a job. He definitely charges the prospective employee but I would guess that he does not have to add GST to his fees when the job candidate is not based in Oz. Any candidate will seem more attractive if the employer does not have to pay the recruitment agent anything himself.

     

    Jamie is very forthcoming about how he operates. Apparently he won't accept a prospective job-applicant as his client if Jamie doesn't think that he has a reasonable chance of being able to find the candidate a suitable job. Jamie then takes the candidate's CV and turns it into something that would be attractive to an employer, plus Jamie lives in Melbourne and as far as I know, he has been head-hunting for several years. He himself is a Kiwi but he has lived in Oz for many years and he's always been a head-hunter as far as I know.

     

    According to Jamie, he scores because he is able to trace a much wider range of possible employers than the candidate can find via Google. Also, Jamie is in Oz so he can easily phone the prospective employers and so forth. He is an Affiliate member of the Migration Institute of Australia, so I assume that Jamie knows the details of whether or not Employer X would be able to sponsor Jamie's client for a visa and so on.

     

    Jamie has told me that it is much easier to get his client a job if the client already has a GSM visa and will be arriving in Oz on dd/mm/yyyy. However I think he still charges 3 months' salary even if he has to organise a visa as well. My impression is that the employability of the candidate holds more sway than whether or not he needs a visa.

     

    I assume that if the candidate pays Jamie an up-front fee equivalent to 3 months' salary but at the end of 3 months, Jamie has not managed to find the person a job (plus a visa if necessary) Jamie and his client would then have a chat about whether it is worth it for the client to pay Jamie any more money for continuing to try to find the person a job.

     

    Mr Mooney is Tony Mooney, I think. As far as I know, Mr Bridges is Tony Bridges but I am not certain about his first name so "Messrs Bridges and Mooney" will do! I've not seen anything by either of them that describes what they do but I imagine it is similar to what Jamie Smith does.

     

    If it were me, I'd start by questioning Jamie to within an inch of his life, to discover precisely what he promises to do and then I'd sit back and consider whether it would be worth the cost if I were thinking of migrating to Oz.

     

    I think that the readers of this thread need to understand, loud and clear, that there is no such thing as a free lunch and that if they mention that they want to migrate to Australia, they will instantly find themselves surrounded by a whole posse of people who all want to charge them fees for doing one or other bit of the whole operation of moving to Oz. The wannabe migrants have to consider which bits are worth paying for and which bits they can manage without. Everyone will reach different conclusions about this. However, if what is promised seems to be so cheap that it seems to be too good to be true, the chances are very high that it is too good to be true and that therefore it is not true.

     

    Then there is Global Tradesearch in Adelaide, run by Sandy Coates and her husband Richard Coates, who is a Registered Migration Agent.

     

    Global TradeSearch Recruitment - providing skilled trades people and professionals for the Australian workforce

     

    I had quite a lengthy correspondence with Sandy a few years ago. As far as I could gather, she acts for several locally-based companies. several of them to do with mining. The employers pay her to get vacancies filled. If the best candidate is a migrant then I don't think Sandy charges the migrant a fee as well as long as the employer and the migrant both use Richard for obtaining the employer-sponsored visa. If Richard is not used, and his own fees paid by somebody, I think Sandy charges the migrant an introducer's fee but one would really have to ask her exactly how it all works.

     

    There are other recruitment agencies who fill jobs for Aussie employers but these recruitment agencies have Labour Agreements between themselves and DIAC. Extraman are famous for this in mining-type operations.

     

    Extraman - Providing the right people at the right time International Applicants

     

    There are a couple of others as well. They do something called "on hire." That is, the recruitment agency is the employer for the purposes of a sc 457 temporary visa. The recruitment agency is responsible for paying the migrant employee's salary and then it is up to the recruitment agency to hire their migrant employee out to a suitable Aussie employer.

     

    That type of operation died a death when the recession hit because the Minister for Immigration at the time, Senator Evans, decided that it would be wrong for Aussie employers to use migrant employees when lots of willing Aussies had joined the dole queue. He ordered a review of all the existing Labour Agreements and the whole thing became so bureaucratic and protracted that Extraman closed their international recruitment arm for a while. I don't know whether they have now re-opened it.

     

    It sounds to me like your friend wants to be a typical recruitment agent without any international strings to her bow. The employers would be her clients and she would simply weed out the applicants so as to get it down to a short list of people for the employer to consider. If the employer chooses a candidate from the recruitment agent's list then the employer alone pays the recruitment agent's fees.

     

    That arrangement ought to be very successful in Oz at the moment because my impression is that it is a tiger economy with jobs available for anyone who actually wants to work. Plus the Aussie Public Sector is not laying off employees in droves, unlike in the UK. In the UK, apparently 2.5 million people are unemployed but only about 500,000 jobs are available, according to the newspapers. I suspect that Australia does not have this type of problem.

     

    I think it gets very complicated when you start drilling down into the details of who does what in the general field of "recruitment" and then you try to find out how the different aspects of the whole thing actually work. I only know a tiny amount about it myself and it is roughly as I have said above.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Hi Gill,

     

    Sounds like you're not having a fun time at the moment with the abscess, hope it gets better soon :)

     

    To be honest out of all the agents I've spoken to they say It would be difficult to get over to Australia on my own steam and that I should pursue the RSMS visa. I'm 44 years old and 45 in September this year. I'm a trained Production shift manager/Team leader/supervisor with a disposable medical supply manufacturer and I've been with them for nearly 11 years. I have run a shift of upto 40 people during that time. I have got the experience but not much in terms of qualifications ie, work based NVQ's in team leading and others, I'm also part way through a course on Lean manufacturing (6 sigma) but this has been put on hold by the company due to funds.

     

    I haven't heard about Jamie Smith before so quite interested in what he can do.

     

    Thanks for replying :)

     

    Russ

     

    Hi Russ

     

    Thanks for the information. You would be looking for an employer-sponsored visa, for sure. However what type of visa is quite difficult to identity, In theory, you would tick the boxes for an RSMS visa but how many employers who do the sort of work that you are interested in are based in Regional Australia? Unless the employer is based in Regional Oz, there is no chance of an RSMS visa.

     

    Also, you have to think very hard - and very unsentimentally - about what level of skill your job involves when one considers it in the context of ANZSCO.

     

    1220.0 - ANZSCO - Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations, First Edition, 2006

     

    Australian and New Zealand Standard Classification of Occupations (ANZSCO)

     

    Your UK job-title is irrelevant. You have to work out how ANZSCO classifies the sort of work that you do. You have to "squeeze yourself" into ANZSCO, if you like, because the document itself doesn't do any squeezing and ANZSCO is the Bible as far as DIAC ae concerned.

     

    Ideally, your occupation needs to be in Major Groups 1, 2 or 3. Preferably, it also needs to be in either Schedule 3 or Schedule 4 of the new SOL:

     

    Visa Options Comparison Charts

     

    Skilled Occupation Lists (Formerly Known as Form 1121i)

     

    It has all become so complicated in the last year or so that one can forget about the value of a salesman who is all glib talk but no real knowledge. You and I both know of one such who seems to have ceased trading recently.

     

    One can also forget about the idea that a migration agent (registered or otherwise) who does not understand the new regime inside out will be of any use. They won't be. The really ace migration agents remain exceptionally good - they understand the new game completely and they understand that Australia is trying to close its borders to anyone whose job could be done just as well by someone who already lives in Australia.

     

    If your occupation is not in ANZSCO 1, 2 or 3 and it is also not in Schedule 4 of the new SOL then, essentially, the Aussie Government considers that the work that you do is only semi-skilled in nature. This is how they regard somebody who drives a huge tower-crane, for example. The driver of such a crane will tell you that working such a crane close to a quayside is actually pretty complicated because if the load takes control of the operation (as they sometimes try to do) then there is a good chance that the tower-crane, worth several millions of £££££, may well go for a swim in the sea, along with the load and the driver.

     

    However, the people who work these things out in the Immi Department are pen-pushing Suits and nobody would put one of them in charge of even a small crane in a non-hazardous place, doing nothing more dramatic than carrying a bag of Granny's knitting around. The Suits work for the Aussie Government and the Suit-wearing Government says that the occupation is only semi-skilled.

     

    In this sort of situation, the Suit-wearing Government has bowed to some of the pressure applied to them by people like Mr King, who has recently retired from a major company that does the groundworks for major construction sites in Oz. (I can't remember the company's name at the moment.) The upshot was that companies like Freo Machinery are now able to hire migrant crane drivers, the drivers of huge pieces of earth moving machinery etc provided that Freo Machinery enters into a Labour Agreement with the Department of Immi (DIAC.)

     

    When DIAC announced this idea about 18 months ago, I heard that companies like Freo Machinery decided to put their collective foot down. Apparently the companies figured that the Suits would start co-operating fast enough once contracts could not be fulfilled on time and on budget because of a shortage of suitably qualified and equally willing and experienced drivers of these enormous machines.

     

    Eventually it did all get a bit better in that the Suits became less finicky and less bureaucratic about what the Labour Agreements ought to say. The companies then compromised and agreed to enter into the Labour Agreements, I heard. Not many construction site managers are interested in hiring a piece of heavy machinery by itself - they want to hire the driver as well as the machine and they insist that the owner of the machine is responsible for producing the driver of it. So it made sense for companies like Freo to enter into the watered down Labour Agreements because the average Aussie is more willing to claim the dole and remain in his house in Perth than to work for Freo on some contruction project or other out in the Backofbeyondup. It is easier to persuade a would-be immigrant to head off to the Backofbeyondup.

     

    I haven't heard whether any of the companies who manufacture medical disposables are interested in pursuing these types of Labour Agreement but I suspect that they might have to if they want to be able to hire migrants.

     

    For you, I think that the obvious first step is to contact some of the companies who manufacture and distribute this type of equipment. For instance:

     

    Diabetes Australia - Diabetes Australia

     

    Welcome to the Australian Council of Stoma Associations

     

    Every ailment that requires medical disposable equipment is cared for by one of the relevant charities in Oz. It is possible for the patients to get the disposable equipment more cheaply via the charities than via walking into their nearest pharmacist for it. The charities know who they get the stuff from so with a bit of drilling down, you can get the names and contact details for some of the companies who make and distribute the actual equipment.

     

    Sure, you could hire Jamie Smith or whoever. I don't know whether he would be prepared to get involved with such an esoteric occupation but you might as well ask him. However, Jamie would only use his loaf and do the sort of drilling down that I am describing - which you might be able to do by yourself, free of charge, because you and the manufacturers/distributors in Oz both have a much better chance of understanding your CV than either Jamie or I would have.

     

    I think you are looking at a long-shot in visa terms. I also think that there is a danger with migration agents, called the Pre-Conceived Idea, which is not necessarily an accurate idea. Your description of your occupation suggests to me that it is probably classified as being semi-skilled only (eg working in a factory that makes contact lenses. The lenses themselves are very highly precision-engineered - I wear them and I know how uncomfortable they would be if this were not so. However computers and machines actually produce the lenses - setting the machines up correctly might be quite easy to learn how to do.)

     

    However, I could be suffering from pre-conceived ideas of my own where you are concerned - for all that I know, you might be hiding your lights under bushells!

     

    Therefore I think the best solution for you at this stage is for you to study ANZSCO and the SOL yourself and then for you to tell me what you think your occupation is according to ANZSCO.

     

    I am sorry that this is a laborious way to go about things but it is the safest way to do it with you and it is also free to check things out in this way, between us. I think it is safest if you tell me which occupation to look at and then we can proceed together from there.

     

    There is NO reason why you cannot do this by yourself, hon. I can promise you that. I'm a lawyer with a background in private practice. I have acted for thousands of people and I have never met even one person who has proved to be stupid where his own affairs are concerned. The same goes for you as well. You can work this out reliably - I'm certain of it and I trust you much more than I trust myself with this because I only have a very brief and vague description about exactly what you do

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Hi Gill,

     

    Thanks for such an informative post.

     

    I've had a look through the ANZSCO list and find various positions which I am capable of doing and have the experience though they are a basic level.

     

    The ANZSCO refs and job desc. are as follows:

     

    712916 Paper and Pulp Mill Operator

     

    839411 Paper and Pulp Mill Worker

     

    711311 Paper Products Machine Operator

     

    711514 Plastics Production Machine Operator

     

    839916 Glass Processing Worker

     

    711113 Glass Production Machine Operator

     

    The problem is I have worked in these environments but (the 3 at the top of the list) as a shift manager (Supervisor/Team Leader). However I cannot find any of these on the SOL list.

     

    All of my experience is working in a manufacturing/production environment. It's not really about the type of products which are made but the fact I am experienced in running a shift of employees (and pulp paper machinery) and applying all the necessary tasks/management duties during my shift. That is the experience which I will be taking and applying to a new position though obviously if it was in a pulp paper mill (even making egg cartons) I would have more relevant and up to date knowledge of the processes involved but ideally it would be my man management/technical skills which would be of use. I could run a shift of people manufacturing (...and these are just suggestions lol) bottles as I have glass industry experience, Plastic bottles as I also have plastic industry experience and wine/beer as I have loads of experience drinking the stuff:jiggy:

     

    Seriously though and my apologies if I repeat myself but is is late over here, I can apply my skills to most manufacturing environments, it's just more advantageous to apply those skills in environments I am familiar with, however if I get the opportunity to run a team in say a winery etc I would relish the challenge so to speak.

     

    Hope this makes sense Gill, and once again, thanks for your assistance hon :)

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    Hi Gill,

     

    Thanks for such an informative post.

     

    I've had a look through the ANZSCO list and find various positions which I am capable of doing and have the experience though they are a basic level.

     

    The ANZSCO refs and job desc. are as follows:

     

    712916 Paper and Pulp Mill Operator

     

    839411 Paper and Pulp Mill Worker

     

    711311 Paper Products Machine Operator

     

    711514 Plastics Production Machine Operator

     

    839916 Glass Processing Worker

     

    711113 Glass Production Machine Operator

     

    The problem is I have worked in these environments but (the 3 at the top of the list) as a shift manager (Supervisor/Team Leader). However I cannot find any of these on the SOL list.

     

    All of my experience is working in a manufacturing/production environment. It's not really about the type of products which are made but the fact I am experienced in running a shift of employees (and pulp paper machinery) and applying all the necessary tasks/management duties during my shift. That is the experience which I will be taking and applying to a new position though obviously if it was in a pulp paper mill (even making egg cartons) I would have more relevant and up to date knowledge of the processes involved but ideally it would be my man management/technical skills which would be of use. I could run a shift of people manufacturing (...and these are just suggestions lol) bottles as I have glass industry experience, Plastic bottles as I also have plastic industry experience and wine/beer as I have loads of experience drinking the stuff:jiggy:

     

    Seriously though and my apologies if I repeat myself but is is late over here, I can apply my skills to most manufacturing environments, it's just more advantageous to apply those skills in environments I am familiar with, however if I get the opportunity to run a team in say a winery etc I would relish the challenge so to speak.

     

    Hope this makes sense Gill, and once again, thanks for your assistance hon :)

     

     

    Hi Russ

     

    ANZSCO is divided into 8 Major Groups. Only occupations from Major Groups 1-4 are on the ENSOL.

     

    The usual drill with someone like you would be to call you something else for visa purposes. Something out of Groups 1-4 inclusive.

     

    To be honest, I think that it would be a very long shot with you. The sort of pulp mill that is likely to have 30 or 40 operators on shift at any one time is not likely to be located in the Backofbeyondup because it would be difficult to recruit enough staff there. Wherever there is a fairly high population density, it is likely that there wouldn't be too much of a problem with finding Aussies to fill all the jobs.

     

    I would suggest asking Jamie Smith whether it would be likely that he could find you a job and either an RSMS visa (preferably) or a 457 visa at least. Jamie would be able to scrounge some free advice about what sort of occupation you ought to nominate and I would trust him to decline to accept instructions and fees from you if he does not honestly believe that he would be likely to succeed.

     

    If Oz is reckoned to be a no go zone for you nowadays (they have become extremely stringent about their immigration policy in the last 18 months or so) would you be willing to consider NZ instead? If yes, Jamie is a Kiwi so it would be worth asking him if he's got a brother in NZ.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Hi Gill,

     

    On the ANZSCO list Group 1, the title that is nearest would be Production Manager, though I am not that far up the laddder so to speak.

     

    The number of people I have managed is more or less irrelevent, I have managed a team of 5 employees but the most is around 40, so I could easily work Backofbeyondup providing theres some kind of team to manage. The kind of vacancy I would probably go for would be something such as this:

     

    SEEK - Production Line Team Leader - Afternoon Shift Job in Adelaide

     

    But like every other vacancy, I have to already have the 'right to live and work in Australia' which is the 1st hurdle I need to get over.

     

    I agree that Jamie Smith would probably be my best option to advise me, I understand that Oz has clamped down recently, unfortunately for me my situation has only lately changed where I'm in more of a position to emigrate. I haven't really considered NZ but it has been at the back of my mind as a possibility.

     

    Russ

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    Guest WhatNow?

    Just to clarify the situation that Diane mentioned with respect to paying for someone to help you to get a job...if the person or company has a recruitment agent's licence in South Australia it is specifically stated in the licence conditions that they must not charge the prospective employee a fee. Of course if they are not registered here then that is different, but if that is the case then you have to seriously ask what exactly they are going to do for you that you could not do yourself....

     

    At Home2Home Settlements we have been helping new migrants to settle since 2003 and, as most native Adelaidians and those who have been here a while know, Adelaide is basically a networking city and you will be better received by being introduced by a local company or resident than by being represented by a 'foreign' agent. From our experience of most agents in the UK who purport to be able to get you in front of an employer, their ability to represent you depends on the strength of their personal networks. The exception to this is nursing and one or two other types of agencies who have specific contracts with specific employers. Please don't be fooled into thinking that you are gaining a massive advantage by paying anyone else in the UK (or any other country) a large amount of money to get you a job. It really doesn't work like that unless they are specialists in a particular field and you are being head-hunted (in which case the employer pays anyway).

     

    It is hard enough persuading an employer to recruit someone from overseas when that person is already in the country, let alone recruiting them blind, with no face-to-face meetings. Some companies are happy to conduct Skype interviews but the fact of the matter is that, unless the job you are interested in is in a specialist professional field where the employer is used to dealing with overseas agents, local employers will simply find the process 'too hard'. South Australians employers are sadly very conservative in their ways!

     

    Most of our clients who come on recce visits or arrive permanently sign on with local recruitment agencies and start out by contracting, building up a portfolio of experience and local references and often end up being taken on permanently by one of the clients they contract with. This gives both sides an opportunity to 'try before they buy'.

     

    Sorry if anyone thinks my comments are negative, but we have the experience of several years and many clients from different walks of life to go by and though there are exceptions to the rule, the majority of migrants find there is no quick and easy way to get a permanent role - if there were then all those UK 'job finders' would really be earning the money they try to get out of you!

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    Just been emailed this by SEEK which might be of interest:

     

    SEEK - promote yourself

    ================================================================

     

    Hi Jobseeker,

     

    Create a SEEK Profile and Promote Yourself.

     

    To increase your chances of finding a new job it's important to

    get in front of employers looking for people with your skills.

     

    SEEK Profile is a NEW, free service on SEEK that lets potential

    employers search for people like you.

     

    Get your resume in front of the right employers - it's easy

     

    1. Upload your resume

    2. Summarise your skills and experience in your own words, choose

    how much you want to reveal about yourself, and who gets to see

    your resume and contact details.

    3. Tell us what sort of job you're looking for.

     

    Once you're done, interested employers can access your new SEEK

    Profile, and request to read your resume.

     

    Even if you're not actively looking for a new job, a SEEK

    Profile will ensure your next job is looking for you.

     

    Get started - Create your SEEK Profile!

    http://seek.eservicesesp.com/cts/click?q=142%3B111005%3Ble7u%2B6g7OgDdYenAsWPYmeZlaLP2EEIF&cid=:sk:main:js:edm:au:jm24:jsp:3

     

    Best of luck with your job search,

     

    The team at SEEK

     

    To find out more click the link below:

    http://seek.eservicesesp.com/cts/click?q=142%3B111005%3BQJHLxqM33Ls48ucnIMkaCA%3D%3D

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    Guest garlic--bread

    Cheers for the info Diane...the deed is now done :)

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    Guest garlic--bread
    Hi Russ

     

    ANZSCO is divided into 8 Major Groups. Only occupations from Major Groups 1-4 are on the ENSOL.

     

    The usual drill with someone like you would be to call you something else for visa purposes. Something out of Groups 1-4 inclusive.

     

    To be honest, I think that it would be a very long shot with you. The sort of pulp mill that is likely to have 30 or 40 operators on shift at any one time is not likely to be located in the Backofbeyondup because it would be difficult to recruit enough staff there. Wherever there is a fairly high population density, it is likely that there wouldn't be too much of a problem with finding Aussies to fill all the jobs.

     

    I would suggest asking Jamie Smith whether it would be likely that he could find you a job and either an RSMS visa (preferably) or a 457 visa at least. Jamie would be able to scrounge some free advice about what sort of occupation you ought to nominate and I would trust him to decline to accept instructions and fees from you if he does not honestly believe that he would be likely to succeed.

     

    If Oz is reckoned to be a no go zone for you nowadays (they have become extremely stringent about their immigration policy in the last 18 months or so) would you be willing to consider NZ instead? If yes, Jamie is a Kiwi so it would be worth asking him if he's got a brother in NZ.

     

    Cheers

     

    Gill

     

     

    Hi Gill,

     

    So where would I start regarding contacting Jamie? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

     

    Thanks

     

    Russ

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    Guest jamie smith

    Hi all

     

    Sorry I'm late to this particular party, I have not previously been on this forum, and was just googling some info before finding this thread and joining PIA.

     

    Some minor corrections in various posts:

     

     

    Jamie charges the prospective employee the equivalent of 3 months' salary.

     

    ONE month's Australian salary is the fee, for a three month search contract. GST is a bit tricky as some would say we are delivering the service here in OZ therefore GST applies. If I turn the service into a product (trade secret:eek:) and export it then this does not apply.

     

    Time flies, it's coming up 7 years I've been in Oz and I still like to be called a kiwi, thanks!

     

    Job search for anyone, and in particular a migrant, all comes down to strategy and local knowledge, plus a pinch of salesmanship. How to make a problem seem like an opportunity, what to de-emphasise, what type of employer to focus on etc.

     

    Then build a targeted employer database and work it through once you have the pitch worked out.

     

    Jamie has told me that it is much easier to get his client a job if the client already has a GSM visa and will be arriving in Oz on dd/mm/yyyy.
    yes it makes the migrant into something apprearing as more concrete and committed. That helps, but it does not guarantee a result. We are also successful with 457/ENS combinations, RSMS etc.

     

    My impression is that the employability of the candidate holds more sway than whether or not he needs a visa.

     

    Spot on. Even Australians have a problem selling themselves to an employer, so making an applicant into an attractive proposition is the first step - CV makeover, problem anticipation and solution (on the CV profile), strong sales pitch at first contact etc.

     

    I assume that if the candidate pays Jamie an up-front fee equivalent to 3 months' salary but at the end of 3 months, Jamie has not managed to find the person a job (plus a visa if necessary) Jamie and his client would then have a chat about whether it is worth it for the client to pay Jamie any more money for continuing to try to find the person a job.
    ONE month salary equivalent, but otherwise correct. If we fail to get the necessary interviews we sometimes extend the search period for free.

     

    Mr Mooney is Tony Mooney, I think. As far as I know, Mr Bridges is Tony Bridges but I am not certain about his first name so "Messrs Bridges and Mooney" will do! I've not seen anything by either of them that describes what they do but I imagine it is similar to what Jamie Smith does.
    Tony Mooney had a business called Bridges but I think it closed after he joined another firm.

     

    Tony's model is only slightly like ours, except he largely works with employers who use(d) recruitment agents, and recruiters plus online job sites only accesses about 25% of job vacancies. Any one who is not in high demand (ie employer typically forced into advertising) will not get much joy from a recruitment agency service reseller.

     

    Our service is free to the employer and although we do handle listed vacancies given us by employers, we ONLY charge a fee to the migrant as anyone who signs with us and misses out on the advertised position should be given a continuity of job search. Some agencies double dip and charge both migrant and employer. I believe Bridges Relocation or TonyMoodey.biz used to allow for this in their contract but not sure if they executed it that way. In Australia this is called secret commission and it is prohibited unless there is full and early disclosure of the amounts.

     

    I think that the readers of this thread need to understand, loud and clear, that there is no such thing as a free lunch..... The wannabe migrants have to consider which bits are worth paying for and which bits they can manage without. Everyone will reach different conclusions about this. However, if what is promised seems to be so cheap that it seems to be too good to be true, the chances are very high that it is too good to be true and that therefore it is not true.

     

    Spot on

     

    There are a couple of others as well. They do something called "on hire." That is, the recruitment agency is the employer for the purposes of a sc 457 temporary visa. The recruitment agency is responsible for paying the migrant employee's salary and then it is up to the recruitment agency to hire their migrant employee out to a suitable Aussie employer.
    THis often results in 15% being deducted from the migrant's wages for the agency to administer the payroll, and migrants are often benched durling slow work periods ahead of Australians who are on the books. And you get paid for what you work...

     

    That arrangement ought to be very successful in Oz at the moment because my impression is that it is a tiger economy with jobs available for anyone who actually wants to work.
    Some parts of the economy here are very sluggish eg retail and much manufacturing.

     

    FWIW some states mandate how recruitment agents charge fees, in NSW it is prohibited, in SA you need a license, in WA only half the fee can be billed to the client etc and this was set up to proect Australians from being exploited when the Government started paying agencies to help with job search for longer term unemployed several years ago. In Victoria there is no legislation as such and therefore civil laws allow to operate in all States with one client service model. Any other state location means differing legal coverage for different clients. Here in Victoria it is consistent law for all clients and specified in our contract.

     

    Also, jurisdiction comes into play, so if the client is resident outside OZ then the Australian laws probably don't apply. Do your homework before signing up for any fee for service overseas in Australia, much like you would do with hiring your own plumber or lawyer back home.

     

    Gill, I assume your face is now back to normal? I'm nurturing an old root canal that is slowly going down hill.

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