End up like Britain??

[Guest Guest5035]

So you think you can dance........i know i'm a big sook

 

stevo

[Guest guest5559]

What is the fine line between working & claiming the dole, am I missing something? You either working or you're not?? There are frauds in all walks of life I know and people milking the system from to top to the bottom! As for immigrants, often they bring more than they take! .... look at the recent economic meltdown in UK, America, Eire etc, -> big bankers, politicians etc... all at the top. Look at war torn countries, some say it's big business for the western arms industry keeping these places in endless civil unrest. The majority of people affected by America & Britains 'war on terror' are innocent civilians! I know I would flee at all costs placed in a similar situation.

Anyway, irrespective of your views excellent reading on all this is (in addition to books named above) Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali & The Flying Carpet To Baghdad, Hala Jaber & I'm sure there are many others. It's good to read the views & perspectives of the people fleeing their lands!

As for poms in Timbuktu... mmm... I hosted a dinner for recent American arrivals & asked what their first impression of Adelaide was... reply: "it's so caucasion, what is this, what's going on here"?... where are the indigenous people?

[Guest guest4504]

I actually came on to look for a hairdresser and then stumbled across this thread and thought, bloody hell this is just like the conversation I had at work with an Australian except she was going on about the English and said a lot more besides! So it was just a cautionary about how blind we can be on how others view us. The truth is often more complex! I don't need educating on the situation of the £10 poms or their hard work, struggle etc etc. I was passing on a view that I didn't agree with on English migrants but which struck me as the incredibly similar to a few of the views (by no means all) I've read here about some other migrant groups... except on that occassion it was the views of an Australian on the English! It was intended as a cautionary.

Also just because I found something I read depressing doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it! Don't you ever read things & after reading think... ooh I find this rather depressing or whatever, unfortunately I am no psychic so have to read first then decide, sometimes I find as you read on things get better so my 1st impression may be altered! But reading this thread also helped me understand better why lots of my English friends & colleagues including my hubby say they don't go on these sites cos they found them very depressing! Does this mean I can't say as much?

 

So I take it she was anti English ? How did you feel afterwords from what she said ?

[Diane]

Are English people called "poms" in any other country than Australia? What about in the US? Or are they "Limeys" there?

 

Not trying to make a point - just curious...

[Guest guest4504]

Honestly boys, a serious topic and you drag it down into humour!!!

 

Getting back to the intelligent side of this thread, what I don't understand us why the government can't link two problems: there are lots of asylum seekers being held in a secure centre while their credentials are being checked out - often for many months at a time; there are lots of unfilled jobs - such as out at the mines - for which skilled and trained migrants from overseas are being sought. Often western european migrants are put off by the lack of civilisation out at some of these places, and not wanting to be miles from urban centres, but perhaps that might not be such an issue for someone coming from a war torn place?

 

My solution? Turn the Detention Camps into skills training camps. Teach these people how to drive a big truck, how to weld etc etc, then when/if they're cleared for release, they are in demand, they contribute to the economy, etc etc - and if they don't get clearance, at least they can go to wherever they are sent afterwards in a better situation than they arrived! And the government can stop bringing in so many bloody poms and overfilling this beautiful country of mine!!!

 

Wouldn't that work??

 

"And the government can stop bringing in so many bloody poms and overfilling this beautiful country of mine!!! "

 

So now you are there no one else can , is that it ? Others have been slated for comments about asylum, but this is ok .

 

"Teach these people how to drive a big truck, how to weld etc etc,"

 

Which of those would you pick to teach ? Also with what, I take it that there are loads of multi million dollar heavy equipment lying around to train people and a welder can be trained so fast with experience for mine welding ? An immigrant has to show many years of experience to go to Oz and you will give a fast track to others... oh come on think.

Be easier and cheaper just to employ more border agency / detention staff and fast track claims. Then set employment programs for any jobs that may need filling that require less costs.... Fruit picking !

[minty]

I guess the thing that we care about when you strip everything back is not what race or religion people are its wether they are good or bad people.

 

Ive got friends of all colours and religions and am not bothered by non of this, indeed i do not see a colour or religion. Funnily enough though i have got no friends that are lazy, sponging, and bad. I guess these are the people we dont really like.

[Guest Guest5035]

What is the fine line between working & claiming the dole, am I missing something? QUOTE]

 

a few kids and its about $20

 

stevo

[Diane]

"And the government can stop bringing in so many bloody poms and overfilling this beautiful country of mine!!! "

 

So now you are there no one else can , is that it ? Others have been slated for comments about asylum, but this is ok .

 

"Teach these people how to drive a big truck, how to weld etc etc,"

 

Which of those would you pick to teach ? Also with what, I take it that there are loads of multi million dollar heavy equipment lying around to train people and a welder can be trained so fast with experience for mine welding ? An immigrant has to show many years of experience to go to Oz and you will give a fast track to others... oh come on think.

Be easier and cheaper just to employ more border agency / detention staff and fast track claims. Then set employment programs for any jobs that may need filling that require less costs.... Fruit picking !

 

The first comment was a JOKE! D'uh!

 

The second point, well there are more than just those two professions on the required skills list - I'm in no way saying someone can be instantly trained in any of the professions and trades that you guys do, but everyone has to start somewhere don't they? And if people are receiving some sort of training, they (a) feel more worthwhile and (b) have something else to concentrate on rather than boredom and frustration leading to violence and depression, and © assimilate quicker and contribute to the economy quicker on release.

 

I have spoken to many rural employers about the difficulty of getting staff in a whole range of areas - they say that often the local youths have no interest in training, or no work ethic. Asylum seekers in many cases are more mature, and I would think would have a vested interest in doing some training. They already have lessons in the english language, and of course, any children in the camps are educated. It's not a matter of "giving them a fast track" - for goodness sake, most of them will be given visas anyway - why not give them the opportunities to learn new skills that you and everyone else applying to come on a skilled visa has had? And it's not a matter of me picking someone to teach - just make the teaching available in the detention camps and any that wish to take it up can!

 

Implying that all asylum seekers are good for is "fruit picking" totally misunderstands both the problem and the situation of many of these people. They do have doctors, teachers, and other professions in Afghanistan etc, you know - and some of them have to flee their country in fear of their lives - they're not all uneducated manual labourers!

 

And during World War II in the UK plenty of women got crash courses in welding etc and didn't do too badly!

[Guest guest5559]

Apologies folks for all the above threads but I didn't realise I wasn't posting my reply onto individual responses to my post, all new to me this, realise I should have used the 'quote post' box! My apologies again but hope you get the gist, I'm not having a rant... & defo no fisticuffs really! Actually trying to get off this thread cos I think I'm being misunderstood but wanted to reply before disapearing but then get another reply! Now all I see is a long list of my replies! Aaaahhh!

[Guest guest5559]

No Gill, it doesn`t What you need to understand is everyones views are different and should be respected, whether you think they are racist or not, everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as its just debate and no fisticuffs then everything is fine by me.

 

Upon the start of this debate I looked up a few things and found that Australia has followed the lead from the UK and formed a group calling themselves the Australian Defence League

 

http://www.libertiesalliance.org/2010/01/25/australian-defence-league-%E2%80%93-the-defence-league-movement-against-sharia-law-goes-global/

 

Seems like a whole new generation of people are going all out for a religious war !!!

 

I can see dark days ahead , the war between the Emperor and the tight knit rebellion, with the Emporers tool of war having asthma and breathing heavily, and the rebellion being led by the small army of Jedi

 

Oh dear, that's just my point!!! No fisticuffs here whatsoever, feel what I'm saying is being misunderstood!

[Guest lastboyscout]

No apologies needed, and no fisticuffs either

 

I find it quite hard to really grasp how shocked you were at the woman from works comments to be honest, I`ve found that there are quite alot of racist people out there but I certainly wouldn`t say its the poms or aussies that make up the vast number there, I`ve found Italians, Greeks , Asians and even Africans to be racist too, just by the way they describe their day to day living experiences :embarrassed:

 

 

I stood talking to 2 elderly gentlemen the other day (one pom and one dutch), both been here about 30 + years and got quite embarrassed by the amount of racism that emanated from their mouths.

 

Its sad to say it does exist here, and seems like it will never go away!

[Guest lastboyscout]

Oh dear, that's just my point!!! No fisticuffs here whatsoever, feel what I'm saying is being misunderstood!

 

 

You seriously need to take a chill pill Gill

 

You aren`t being misunderstood

[Guest guest5559]

Can't see why anyone would find this thread depressing! It's a lively debate between people with different views and opinions, that so far hasn't degenerated into fisiticuffs! Gosh, anyone that finds this depressing must never have gone into a pub in the Uk and had a chat with friends!! Perhaps that's why they're depressed....

 

As has been said above, everyone is allowed their own opinions, as long as they do their best to back up WHY they feel that way, and respect others' rights to think differently. Some will maybe change and reconsider after reading other viewpoints, others will not. That's how life is!

 

That's also what a democracy is, and to me it would be depressing if people weren't allowed this freedom of speech!

 

Indeed! Gees, finding a film or a book or an opinion etc., depressing is not = to being depressed... oh nooo, not @ all! But like you say, this is a democracy & we all entitled to our opinions, freedom of speech etc., but distorting what is being said by some-one isn't my idea of good or lively debate at any level! So I'm now finished with thread, a bit too wierd for me!

[Guest guest5559]

You seriously need to take a chill pill Gill

 

You aren`t being misunderstood

 

Thanks but no thanks! I'm a happy bunny, feeling very amused now!

[Guest guest5559]

What is the fine line between working & claiming the dole, am I missing something? QUOTE]

 

a few kids and its about $20

 

stevo

 

Ahh I see!

[Guest guest5559]

No apologies needed, and no fisticuffs either

 

I find it quite hard to really grasp how shocked you were at the woman from works comments to be honest, I`ve found that there are quite alot of racist people out there but I certainly wouldn`t say its the poms or aussies that make up the vast number there, I`ve found Italians, Greeks , Asians and even Africans to be racist too, just by the way they describe their day to day living experiences :embarrassed:

 

 

I stood talking to 2 elderly gentlemen the other day (one pom and one dutch), both been here about 30 + years and got quite embarrassed by the amount of racism that emanated from their mouths.

 

 

 

Its sad to say it does exist here, and seems like it will never go away!

 

Oh I just gave a snippet of what she had to say about the English... it is a shock to the system when you're first exposed to such directness & like you say very embarrasing too!

[Guest guest5559]

So I take it she was anti English ? How did you feel afterwords from what she said ?

 

Oh yes indeed! Just surprised really!

[Guest Guest5035]

this nutter got a visa!!

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/former-refugee-who-broke-wifes-skull-with-lump-of-wood-avoids-jail/story-e6frea83-1226053915171

 

Stevo

[Guest lastboyscout]

this nutter got a visa!!

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/former-refugee-who-broke-wifes-skull-with-lump-of-wood-avoids-jail/story-e6frea83-1226053915171

 

Stevo

 

 

And it now should be taken away

[Guest Guest5035]

My whole point from the 1st post, but the doo gooders took over...

 

Stevo

[Guest moonraker1959]

Interesting to note they said had the guy stayed in Iran the secret police would of tortured him,yet he in effect used the same violence/aggression on his wife????

[Guest Guest5035]

doo gooders got him off

 

stevo

[Guest moonraker1959]

doo gooders got him off

 

stevo[/QUOT

Personally I think they should of deported him.If you want the privelege of living somewhere else,and you then commit a crime,do we really want people like that in our society?

[Guest rich]

my point would be... he's one idiot who happens to be a refugee. so presumably that makes him the sameas, you know, every other refugee(!).

 

And Stevo, 'do gooders' is such a broadly generic term, massively simplistic and a flawed definition. It really riles me that anyone who has a touch of sympathy for the plight of refugees, even if a few of them are of a criminal element (as are, may i add a fair few poms and other nationalities you presumably like because they aren't 'abdullahs' as you eloquently put it a few pages back) get the label.

 

It's ridiculous. If there's any reason this chap got off, it's because of psychological testing allied with the law. Blame the Australian law courts. Do gooders have nothing to do with it.

 

And with that, I depart this thread for good. I've said what I wanted to say. Thanks for the debate.

[Pesty650]

Plenty of people have got away with non custodial sentences even where they have been responsible for the death of someone here. Nothing to do with refugees, but everything to do with the pathetic justice system that exists here so theres no reason to single out an immigrant.