Guest Pom2Be

IT Jobs & Recruitment Agencies in Adelaide

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    Guest Pom2Be

    Hi all,

     

    I have seen bits and pieces spread around the place regarding work in IT, agencies etc so I thought I'd share some stuff from my own experience.

     

    I have been here 7 years, came as Skilled and got my citizenship after 2 years as that is the minimum waiting period. Which means I can apply for jobs everywhere, well, almost ...

     

    First thing you need to know is that unless you are a citizen you CANNOT apply for Government jobs and that includes DEFENCE. Simple as that. Unless you are a massive and I mean a HUGELY famous IT personality, they will reject your application.

     

    Second thing you need to know is DO NOT TRUST recruitment agencies. Here are some reasons:

    - they do not have much in terms of regulations meaning they can lie to you on how much they make out of your contract / permanent position and there is nothing you can do about it. :mad:

     

    - they have these performance indicators (so they get their bonuses) including updating contacts, new contacts (job seekers) and of course clients (employers) so do not be surprised if an agent gives you a call out of the blue just to say hi and see how you're going. They don't care. It's work for them to update your details.:err:

     

    - if you're lucky and they find you a job, congrats you'll be making money which is what you need but they will also make heaps of money simply because they put you in a job.

     

    I know of a site that has a lot of stories on this subject so send me a PM as I do not wish to write it here, might get a slap on my delicate wrists :cute:

     

    Here are some examples from my own personal experience:

     

    - The best chance you have to get a job is via people you know / friends / word of mouth. That IS your best bet. That's how I got the job I am currently on (3 years on)

     

    - Second best bet is jobs advertised directly by employers, no recruitment agency in the middle. Unfortunately this is very rare and you need to keep looking as they do come out sometimes.

     

    - I have applied for over 50 jobs via agencies at a certain stage and 5-6 as advertised by employers. All jobs advertised by employers got me to the interview stage (except for one), only 5 agencies (OUT OF 50) bothered to contact me and had no interview.

     

    I have had a horrible experience dealing with these people and I have a lot of stories and examples from my own experience. It even happened here on this site :huh: . This guy puts an ad with "contact me urgently" blah blah blah, I sent him an email the next day, rang his office three times and guess what? NO ANSWER, they never called back, never replied to my emails.

     

    I thought (still think sometimes) there's got to be something wrong with me, I must be defective somehow since I've never had any luck with the agents so here are some details about me:

     

    - 2 x MCSE certifications

    - Microsoft Certified Trainer

    - Cisco CCNA

    - CAD instructor

    - Project Management and over 10 years at senior level

    - strong SCADA experience

    and so on....

     

    Anyway, hope this long and boring post has helped somehow, any questions I'm happy to help.

    Cheers

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    Guest jillabong

    Hi Pom2Be

     

    Thanks very much for your post, very helpful as my husband is in IT, and have been searching for jobs in SA.

    We are currantly in the process of (hopefully) gaining SA sponsorship, only to just find out that the government has yet again changed the processing priorities!!!! As he is an IT Manager (not on MODL or CSL) we have found ourselves at the botton of the processing pile!!!! At the moment they are saying that its going to be 2012 before these visas are granted!!!

    The only other option now (to get there any quicker) is job sponsorship and I have been researching ENS and RSMS looking for employers, do you know if there are companies out there still willing to sponsor IT Managers, and where might be the best place to look?

    I have registered him with a few employment agencies in Adelaide, but after what you have said I dont think we will want to use them, and none have even got back to us!!!!!!!!! As you say!! (we also trawl SEEK, MYCAREER and CAREERONE)

    Any advice and help would be greatly appreciated.

    As for knowing people in the right places, my folks live in Brisbane, so dont know anyone in SA, if you could point us in the right direction and share your stories it would be fantastic.

     

    Many thanks

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    Guest Philip

    Clearly, you've had some bad experiences with Agents, but I think it's wrong to simply state not to use them. I've had great experience with nearly all of my Agents. I'm not bothered about their cut, I've never asked, all I know is that they're free and they do their utmost to get me a job!

     

    Agents have helped me to get nearly every Job I've ever had, sure knowing someone in the company you're applying for is a good way of getting a position, but how often does that happen? I also work in IT, my advice is to try all avenues and not close any off. Don't hurt your chances of getting a job because you don't think a particular avenue won't work.

     

    Without a doubt IT jobs in Adelaide are slim pickings, often it's not the best skilled person who will get a job, but rather the cheapest - this is especially the case here in Adelaide because you don't need to be an expert to get by. Take a look at the TV Ads and Websites made here for instance, they're mostly crap. Why employ a world famous Film Director, when someone fresh out of Uni will do just fine in the Adelaide environment.

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    Guest Pom2Be

    As Philip said, by all means TRY ALL AVENUES folks, that was purely what had happened to me and the way I feel about things.

    I really hope it won't lead any of you to the same level of disgust and sick as it did me. As for the "They are free" part trust me, they're not. If you are on a $30 per hour job, rest assured they make $10 which is 25% of what they employer pays for having you there.

     

    Jillabong - when it comes to companies looking for IT Managers there have been some posts lately, most of which are by recruitment agencies. I honestly do not think you can talk them into talking the employer into sponsoring you, sorry to say it but I think that's how things are. Sorry about the changes to the visa processing thing, it sucks big time. I had to wait almost 2 years for my independent skilled to come through.

     

    I would also keep a close eye on Brisbane. From what I've seen so far, Sydney and Melbourne are the two biggest chances to land a job in IT (better paid than similar positions in other states too) and it also seems that agencies over there are not as bad as the ones in Adelaide.

     

    I got to the point of feeling sick to the stomach before I contact a recruiter I know it's stupid but that's the truth.

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    Guest jen&ian

    Yes, I'd second pretty much all of the original post here....which is why my husband has set up on his own in order to keep his IT hand in, and doing a mind numbing second job to really keep our heads above water.

     

    Jen

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    FYI you can apply for Government jobs if you are not a citizen; you simply need to be a permanent resident (for SA Govt jobs at least).

     

    Agencies are very very helpful, and IT jobs aren't slim pickings if you have good experience. As I've said before, my husband had 3 offers within 2 weeks of arriving here, all from agencies, and got a perm job he is still in by going this route. Don't write agencies off; they will be the hand that feeds you here in the IT industry!

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    Guest Anne29
    FYI you can apply for Government jobs if you are not a citizen; you simply need to be a permanent resident (for SA Govt jobs at least).

     

    Agencies are very very helpful, and IT jobs aren't slim pickings if you have good experience. As I've said before, my husband had 3 offers within 2 weeks of arriving here, all from agencies, and got a perm job he is still in by going this route. Don't write agencies off; they will be the hand that feeds you here in the IT industry!

     

    I disagree with the comment 'agencies are very very helpful.' Imo and personal experience of them, this is in fact the opposite. I have had rather bad experiences with recruitment agents who don't bother to call or acknowledge you even exist.

     

    Also, the o/p was giving their opinion on personal experience, so how can you question that?:huh:

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    Interesting and useful post, several things I agree with, and were I an IT professional I'm not sure that SA would be my location of choice, but just a few points of difference (easiest to comment directly onto your post but I'm not trying to pick it apart).

     

    Cheers, Jim

     

    Hi all,

     

    I have seen bits and pieces spread around the place regarding work in IT, agencies etc so I thought I'd share some stuff from my own experience.

     

    I have been here 7 years, came as Skilled and got my citizenship after 2 years as that is the minimum waiting period. (was - it's now four years). Which means I can apply for jobs everywhere, well, almost ...

     

    First thing you need to know is that unless you are a citizen you CANNOT apply for Government jobs and that includes DEFENCE. Simple as that. Unless you are a massive and I mean a HUGELY famous IT personality, they will reject your application. (You can apply for any job you like - whether you get it or not is, of course, a different matter. This is one of those classic areas where different people have very different experiences. Defence is certainly an unlikely prospect unless you're a citizen, but even with this I recall that when we visited the only Aus migration expo we went to (in London '05) the biggest exhibitor there was from defence! Very strange!)

     

    Second thing you need to know is DO NOT TRUST recruitment agencies. (Hmm, a rather sweeping statement!) Here are some reasons:

    - they do not have much in terms of regulations meaning they can lie to you on how much they make out of your contract / permanent position and there is nothing you can do about it. :mad: (Not really something I'd be bothered about to be honest!)

     

    - they have these performance indicators (so they get their bonuses) including updating contacts, new contacts (job seekers) and of course clients (employers) so do not be surprised if an agent gives you a call out of the blue just to say hi and see how you're going. They don't care. It's work for them to update your details.:err:(You seem surprised - that's fairly standard the world over.)

     

    - if you're lucky and they find you a job, congrats you'll be making money which is what you need but they will also make heaps of money simply because they put you in a job. (Ditto my last remark - do you expect them to do it for nothing? This is how they earn a living; they don't exist for altruistic reasons.)

     

    I know of a site that has a lot of stories on this subject so send me a PM as I do not wish to write it here, might get a slap on my delicate wrists :cute:

     

    Here are some examples from my own personal experience:

     

    - The best chance you have to get a job is via people you know / friends / word of mouth. That IS your best bet. That's how I got the job I am currently on (3 years on)

     

    - Second best bet is jobs advertised directly by employers, no recruitment agency in the middle. Unfortunately this is very rare and you need to keep looking as they do come out sometimes.

     

    - I have applied for over 50 jobs via agencies at a certain stage and 5-6 as advertised by employers. All jobs advertised by employers got me to the interview stage (except for one), only 5 agencies (OUT OF 50) bothered to contact me and had no interview.

     

    I have had a horrible experience dealing with these people and I have a lot of stories and examples from my own experience. It even happened here on this site :huh: . This guy puts an ad with "contact me urgently" blah blah blah, I sent him an email the next day, rang his office three times and guess what? NO ANSWER, they never called back, never replied to my emails.

     

    I thought (still think sometimes) there's got to be something wrong with me, I must be defective somehow since I've never had any luck with the agents so here are some details about me:

     

    - 2 x MCSE certifications

    - Microsoft Certified Trainer

    - Cisco CCNA

    - CAD instructor

    - Project Management and over 10 years at senior level

    - strong SCADA experience

    and so on....

     

    Anyway, hope this long and boring post has helped somehow, any questions I'm happy to help.

    Cheers

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    I disagree with the comment 'agencies are very very helpful.' Imo and personal experience of them, this is in fact the opposite. I have had rather bad experiences with recruitment agents who don't bother to call or acknowledge you even exist.

     

    Also, the o/p was giving their opinion on personal experience, so how can you question that?:huh:

     

    Just giving a different experience. It all depends on the person, their experience, how they go about contacting the agency and when (you need to already be in Australia, time of year, dependent on how the economy is going, etc...there are many factors in play). I've worked through recruitment agencies in 4 different countries, with no problems finding work...same with my husband. This poster is putting a negative viewpoint out there for all to get discouraged by...so I'm balancing it with something positive. Many of us get our first jobs here through agencies.

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    Guest Pom2Be

    @suzer

    This poster is putting a negative viewpoint out there for all to get discouraged by...so I'm balancing it with something positive. Many of us get our first jobs here through agencies.

     

    If you think this story is a figment of my imagination to play funny games on people who want to come here and start all over again you're wrong. That's how it all worked for me, glad to hear these oxygen wasters can actually help some people.

     

    @jim and adel

    Ditto my last remark - do you expect them to do it for nothing? This is how they earn a living; they don't exist for altruistic reasons.)

    I agree of course they need to make their money somehow. Let me give you an example that would substantiate my point:

    -a very good friend of mine applied for contracting jobs with this agency. They called him, asked him his rates and he said $60 to $70 per hour. They said that's a bit over the customer's budget, if you could lower it to $50 that would be perfect so he did.

    Six months into the contract after the employer saw the quality of his work and his professionalism they made this remark to him "We are very happy to have found you and only pay $100 per hour for you".

    So the agency got him to lower his rate so they can make more they were actually making $50 just as much as my friend did. Now tell me if you find it fair.

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    @suzer

    This poster is putting a negative viewpoint out there for all to get discouraged by...so I'm balancing it with something positive. Many of us get our first jobs here through agencies.

     

    If you think this story is a figment of my imagination to play funny games on people who want to come here and start all over again you're wrong. That's how it all worked for me, glad to hear these oxygen wasters can actually help some people.

     

    Jim, with all due respect, looks like this was your first post on PIA, and you have put out a completely negative viewpoint on something that is very subjective. We're all here to help each other out. No one said it was a figment of your imagination. Sorry you had a bad go of it, but no need to try and convince everyone else that something many of us have found to be a very helpful resource is not worth trying as an avenue of employment.

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    Guest Pom2Be

    I am not trying to convince anybody in regards to using or not using recruiters.

     

    Let me be very clear, perhaps my English is not that good, apologies for that.

     

    As I have stated two posts ago, feel free to use whatever avenue will land you a job. I really hope that everyone coming here will have a job when they need one and that Australia and Adelaide is everything you've ever imagined it would be and then some.

     

    Good luck to you all.

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    Unfortunately most people have to use agencies - but I totally agree with poms2be. My husband has had a really bad experiences with agrencies. It took my husband 18 months to get a job .Its a job not what he really wants .... we have now been here for 2 years and are now waiting for confirmation on our citizenship! hopefully more doors will open for him!

     

    I do think its luck of the draw - good luck to everyone.

     

    Fiona

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    Unfortunately most people have to use agencies - but I totally agree with pom2be. My husband has had a really bad experiences with agrencies. It took my husband 18 months to get a job .Its a job not what he really wants .... we have now been here for 2 years and are now waiting for confirmation on our citizenship! hopefully more doors will open for him!

     

    I do think its luck of the draw - good luck to everyone.

     

    Fiona

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    Unfortunately most people have to use agencies - but I totally agree with pom2be. My husband has had really bad experiences with agrencies. It took my husband 18 months to get a job .Its a job not what he really wants .... we have now been here for 2 years and are now waiting for confirmation on our citizenship! hopefully more doors will open for him!

     

    I do think its luck of the draw - good luck to everyone.

     

    Fiona

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    [quote name='Pom2Be;100544@jim and adel

    Ditto my last remark - do you expect them to do it for nothing? This is how they earn a living; they don't exist for altruistic reasons.)

    I agree of course they need to make their money somehow. Let me give you an example that would substantiate my point:

    -a very good friend of mine applied for contracting jobs with this agency. They called him' date=' asked him his rates and he said $60 to $70 per hour. They said that's a bit over the customer's budget, if you could lower it to $50 that would be perfect so he did.

    Six months into the contract after the employer saw the quality of his work and his professionalism they made this remark to him "We are very happy to have found you and only pay $100 per hour for you".

    So the agency got him to lower his rate so they can make more they were actually making $50 just as much as my friend did. Now tell me if you find it fair.[/quote']

     

    Let's be clear here, in both the heading of your post and the main body you refer to 'recruitment agencies' and that's what I commented on. Here you've gone on to describe something different; this is agency contracting i.e. where the person isn't paid directly by the org they're doing the work for but through the agency. Because you used 'recruitment agencies' I was referring to the 'finder's fee', but you're talking about something completely different. Does it make what you've described fair? No, probably not, but this situation simply isn't what I was commenting on.

     

    Cheers, Jim

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    Guest Pom2Be

    If you apply for a permanent position and you get it, the agency gets paid a lump sum (advertising and pre-selection expenses etc) and then a monthly amount for one year maybe more maybe less.

    I do understand the lump sum whatever it's called but I do not agree with the monthly amounts they make.

    In my case my current employer had a choice - to get me through an agency or directly. They would have had to pay a monthly amount to the agency for 1 year and I know that for a fact from the regional manager.

     

    If you get a contract you will be paid by the agency and not the employer (perhaps 99% of the cases). Again there are costs associated with this and I agree they need to make some money. You'd think it's fair.... Another example is my other half's situation. 11 months ago she was on a contract with this organisation for 5-6 weeks and it was great. Now that organisation is looking for someone permanent full - time for the same job and obviously my OH has applied for it. Guess what, she cannot work there 12 months after the contract finishes because if she does the organisation would have to pay the agency a significant amount of money as per the contract.

     

    Makes you think doesn't it.

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    If you apply for a permanent position and you get it, the agency gets paid a lump sum (advertising and pre-selection expenses etc) and then a monthly amount for one year maybe more maybe less. I do understand the lump sum whatever it's called but I do not agree with the monthly amounts they make.

    In my case my current employer had a choice - to get me through an agency or directly. They would have had to pay a monthly amount to the agency for 1 year and I know that for a fact from the regional manager.

     

    If you get a contract you will be paid by the agency and not the employer (perhaps 99% of the cases). Again there are costs associated with this and I agree they need to make some money. You'd think it's fair.... Another example is my other half's situation. 11 months ago she was on a contract with this organisation for 5-6 weeks and it was great. Now that organisation is looking for someone permanent full - time for the same job and obviously my OH has applied for it. Guess what, she cannot work there 12 months after the contract finishes because if she does the organisation would have to pay the agency a significant amount of money as per the contract.

     

    Makes you think doesn't it.

     

    This is standard stuff. Not really sure what you're whinging about, as it often allows people to get jobs they wouldn't otherwise be able to come by. Your other half can go for the job you describe, but yes, the organisation would have to pay a fee...probably worth it as if they hire someone else they would have to put time (and time is money) into training. It's just the way things work, here and all over the world.

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    Guest Anne29
    This is standard stuff. Not really sure what you're whinging about, as it often allows people to get jobs they wouldn't otherwise be able to come by. Your other half can go for the job you describe, but yes, the organisation would have to pay a fee...probably worth it as if they hire someone else they would have to put time (and time is money) into training. It's just the way things work, here and all over the world.

     

    Again, I think it is the o/p's right to have their opinion. This site isn't only about posting positive experiences in Oz as that would be misleading.

     

    I'm glad you and your husband have been very fortunate jobwise, but in truth, it's not like that for everyone, so why should everyone make out like it is?:arghh:

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    I'm glad you and your husband have been very fortunate jobwise, but in truth, it's not like that for everyone, so why should everyone make out like it is?

     

    Hubs has been very fortunate. I am working, but not doing my dream job or anything. That being said, for some time before I found full-time perm employment, agencies kept me working and the bills being paid. I simply think the OP is having a big old whinge, trying to convince readers that agencies are horrible, when in fact they're very useful to many of us, particularly when we're new in a place.

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    Guest Anne29
    Hubs has been very fortunate. I am working, but not doing my dream job or anything. That being said, for some time before I found full-time perm employment, agencies kept me working and the bills being paid. I simply think the OP is having a big old whinge, trying to convince readers that agencies are horrible, when in fact they're very useful to many of us, particularly when we're new in a place.

     

    Agencies haven't kept me in work, so again, I disagree that they are 'very useful.' It makes me laugh at how people like yourself can be so disrespectful to another one's opinions/circumstances.

     

    If this is how the site is, then I'm tempted to not post again.

     

    Maybe it's time for those rose tinted specs to come off! :realmad:

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    Guest Pom2Be
    Hubs has been very fortunate. I am working, but not doing my dream job or anything. That being said, for some time before I found full-time perm employment, agencies kept me working and the bills being paid. I simply think the OP is having a big old whinge, trying to convince readers that agencies are horrible, when in fact they're very useful to many of us, particularly when we're new in a place.

     

    I am having a whinge for a good reason. And it's a big one. And it's negative, upsetting, horrible you name it. But you know what? It's something that happens every day to a lot of people , a lot more people have bad experiences with agencies than good ones.

    You're trying to make it look like heaven on earth when the truth is far from it. Don't give people out there false hopes and led them to believe that finding a job here is extremely easy because they might put their hopes up only to be bitterly disappointed later.

     

    Once again lady, don't mean to sound rude but read my words below -

     

    I HOPE EVERYONE FINDS A JOB ASAP with or without agencies / recruiters.

     

    As far as I am concerned I have stated all I wanted to say and I won't post any more replies to this post. If anybody has a question please PM me and I'll be happy to reply.

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    Agencies haven't kept me in work, so again, I disagree that they are 'very useful.' It makes me laugh at how people like yourself can be so disrespectful to another one's opinions/circumstances.

     

    Not being disrespectful, just honest. I'm sure new people to the site will be glad to have a balanced opinion. When someone comes on and goes off about something that many of us find useful, it's well worth disagreeing. Would hate to see people turned off to agencies due to one long rant...

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    ...a lot more people have bad experiences with agencies than good ones.

     

    Absolutely untrue, or they'd be out of business:nah:

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    Guest Anne29
    Not being disrespectful, just honest. I'm sure new people to the site will be glad to have a balanced opinion. When someone comes on and goes off about something that many of us find useful, it's well worth disagreeing. Would hate to see people turned off to agencies due to one long rant...

     

    I'm sure people are old enough to make their own choices and decisions when it comes to agencies!

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