Guest mercury

Finding a job as a new migrant

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    Guest mercury

    This has been my experience since I moved here. Australian (in quotes) means Anglo-Australians/ White Australians in this thread.

     

    1.The Australian job market favours "Australians" (like anywhere else I guess) for any openings unless you have a skill in demand where your services are not available locally.

     

    2. White migrants from the UK, New Zealand and other major English speaking countries (e.g. US & Canada) receive 1st priority if they can't find an "Australian". This also explains why the Australian Government and/ or companies go to the UK and run career expos. I know that some people may argue that it is because the cultures are similar, but I don't buy it. Please try and find a job before you get here. One of my friends (non-white) got a job as a professor at UniSA while still in the UK and they did not have to overcome this problem. See this post (many others can be found on the Internet): http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/global/Global_News_Headlines/AfricanAustralians.asp

     

    3.Do your homework before parting with the visa fees if you are not a member of no. 2 above. This will save you and your family from a lot of grief.

     

    4. Adelaide is a very small job market (more so for certain fields). Do not just apply for provisional SA sponsorship just to get to Australia. You may not find enough work (even non-skilled) to fulfil your visa requirements for PR. Or if you have PR you may remain jobless for a long, long time.

     

    5. If you are a professional, think much harder about leaving your country of origin before moving here (unless point number 2 applies to you). Stories abound of Indian, African and Middle Eastern professionals working in chicken factories, or as cleaners, or driving cabs etc. even after earning their Australian degrees (sometimes master's degrees)

     

    6. I know the name of the game is "buyer beware" but I wish the Australian Government would stop frustrating some migrants and making it clear to them that they might not fit in (esp if they don't have a job pre-arranged). I am very proud of the modeling agency in Perth that told the Indian model that she may have problems getting work due to her non-Anglo background. Sometimes this info is not available for would be migrants. (Oh, but wait: the visa fees fill DIMIA's coffers and to only accept migrants from countries they desire would be construed as discriminatory).

     

    7. I am writing this because I have seen quite a number of migrants go back to their home countries due to the above problems.

     

    8. This is just my experience and I am happy to be challenged on it.

     

    Regards,

     

    Mercury-inventer, trickster, and the Greek god of thieves

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    It wouldn't surprise me at all if that is the case.

     

    However there are exceptions. I temped for a while for a small manufacturing company here in Adelaide and the workforce were like the United Nations. The owner said he felt that the overseas workers he employed were in general better qualified and had a much better work ethic than Australians (he rated UK migrants only marginally better than the Aussies). He made sure that the Australians were in the minority in the workplace. He was well travelled, had no prejudices and employed the best person for the job.

     

    I fear that company is very much in the minority.

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    I only work in a small office so can't really comment on the workplace, but I know my son's friends at a private high school here seem to be of every race and nationality under the sun, so their parents must be doing something right - or something that pays enough to meet the ever increasing school fees anyway!

     

    Perhaps it is just in certain industries/fields that non-whites are discriminated against?

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    Guest mercury
    I only work in a small office so can't really comment on the workplace, but I know my son's friends at a private high school here seem to be of every race and nationality under the sun, so their parents must be doing something right - or something that pays enough to meet the ever increasing school fees anyway!

     

    Perhaps it is just in certain industries/fields that non-whites are discriminated against?

     

    Hi Diane,

     

    Did you read the link that was in my original post? Lindsay Tanner himself (an Aussie) acknowledged that there was a problem. There have been several studies done that show that people with non-Anglo names don't get interviews as often as those with Anglo names (they did a study where they changed the names on CV's).

     

    Can these people all be wrong?:)

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    Guest cornish Busdriver

    i gotta admit where i work its an open field.

    We have a multi cultural, sexual prefferences, religions and everyone is treated exacly the same.

    No prioritys is given to one particular group.

    The boss is scotish, a lot of the office staff are filipino and aussie, cordinators are aussie, poms, greek and indian, the JP and head trainner is gay.

    So i gotta admit i havent come across any discrimination or prefference to one particular type of person yet

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    Guest mercury
    i gotta admit where i work its an open field.

    We have a multi cultural, sexual prefferences, religions and everyone is treated exacly the same.

    No prioritys is given to one particular group.

    The boss is scotish, a lot of the office staff are filipino and aussie, cordinators are aussie, poms, greek and indian, the JP and head trainner is gay.

    So i gotta admit i havent come across any discrimination or prefference to one particular type of person yet

     

    Sounds like you work at a pretty diverse place. That is good and I wish all Aussie workplaces were like that.

     

    Unfortunately, some of the studies (and especially people that I have spoken to) suggest that a substantial number of work places are not like yours.Here is another link (study done by researchers at an Aussie University):

    http://thebigchair.com.au/news/focus/racism-when-hiring.

     

    So are all these people making a mountain out of a mole hill? are they too sensitive? Should they just go back where they came from if they don't like it here? I believe that this might be one reason why some communities will not integrate upon moving here. If the majority culture shuns you, you reach a point and decide "why bother?" So it becomes a vicious self-perpetuating cycle. A loss for Australian society, a loss for the migrants.

     

    Point is, while some of these matters may be trivial for some of us on this board, they are sure to be life changing for some potential migrants (from the UK or wherever) who may come across this board when researching opportunities in Australia. Not everyone can afford a reccie and even with that, they may not find out until it is too late.

     

    I am aware that this is a sensitive topic that many people usually ignore as long as it does not personally affect them.

     

    Nevertheless, I believe that my point has been made. i don't want to start "a war" on this forum regarding this matter. Potential migrants if this applies to any of you, you have been warned-"buyer beware-caveat emptor".

     

    In parting, I am a great believer in the words of the World War II German Pastor Martin Niemoller:

     

    "First they came for the communists

     

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

     

    Then they came for the trade unionists,

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

     

    Then they came for the Jews,

    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

     

    Then they came for me

    and there was no one left to speak out for me."

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    I think you get all sorts of people from all walks of life in all sorts of places.

    From an outside perspective looking at this post it seems like its a pasionate point for you but if im honest put across in a slightly racist way in itself. (You are basically saying most Aussies are racist).

    Although you may well have a point to a certain extent there are plenty of European migrants that find it just as hard to find employment aswell. I dont think you can stereotype any large population.

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    Guest mercury
    I think you get all sorts of people from all walks of life in all sorts of places.

     

    From an outside perspective looking at this post it seems like its a pasionate point for you but if im honest put across in a slightly racist way in itself. (You are basically saying most Aussies are racist).]

     

    You have just dismissed my experience and called it irrelevant (in not so many words)!

     

    And yes, I am passionate about it because it is wrong and unfair. DIMIA should address it in the glossy brochures they use to advertise for PR applications. They paint too rosy a picture. This is unacceptable from a government. Especially one in a developed country. If it were a business, that is another story. Or is DIMIA actually a business??

     

     

    I am basing my arguments on findings by Australians. Please do not derail my arguments by saying that I am being racist. Lindsay Tanner (an Aussie-former MP?) said that African migrants face discrimination. Is he being a racist for saying that? Are the researchers at the ANU who did the research on CVs being racist? This is why we can't have a serious discussion about this. Any time a person raises issues, they are called racist themselves. :arghh:

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    I think you get all sorts of people from all walks of life in all sorts of places.

     

    From an outside perspective looking at this post it seems like its a pasionate point for you but if im honest put across in a slightly racist way in itself. (You are basically saying most Aussies are racist).]

     

    You have just dismissed my experience and called it irrelevant (in not so many words)!

     

    And yes, I am passionate about it because it is wrong and unfair. DIMIA should address it in the glossy brochures they use to advertise for PR applications. They paint too rosy a picture. This is unacceptable from a government. Especially one in a developed country. If it were a business, that is another story. Or is DIMIA actually a business??

     

     

    I am basing my arguments on findings by Australians. Please do not derail my arguments by saying that I am being racist. Lindsay Tanner (an Aussie-former MP?) said that African migrants face discrimination. Is he being a racist for saying that? Are the researchers at the ANU who did the research on CVs being racist? This is why we can't have a serious discussion about this. Any time a person raises issues, they are called racist themselves. :arghh:

     

    You cannot stereotype a whole country on a few findings.

    Yes there will be racism in Australia just like all countrys.

    People have already posted that they have diversity in there workplace.

     

    Maybe you could have put your point across in a better light by not painting everyone with the same brush ?

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    Guest mercury

     

    You cannot stereotype a whole country on a few findings.

    Yes there will be racism in Australia just like all countrys.

    People have already posted that they have diversity in there workplace.

     

    Maybe you could have put your point across in a better light by not painting everyone with the same brush ?

     

    Hi there,

     

    I never said ALL Australians are that way. You are using derailing tactics to dismiss my point. Not cool.

     

    Anyway, how would you suggest that I put my point across in "a better light"?

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    Guest Zoot

    Thank you Mercury for exposing this situation - finally someone gets it!!! You are spot on in all you have said about the job market in Adelaide. I came over on a 495 visa being assured that the provisional nature of the visa wouldnt be a handicap - good skills, degrees the whole bit and have applied for a wide range of different jobs at a variety of levels from basic to more senior and have got absolutely nowhere - temporary work they are happy to let you do and managed to fulfil the work requirements for the 495 with temporary work but dont expect permanent roles.

     

    One of the problems with Adelaide is that the large employers are state government, local government and related industries and many of these roles are restricted to citizens or permanent residents which means you dont get that level of diversity. Also being a relatively small market people it is who you know that seems to get you a job. As an example the company I am currently working for selected for one of the roles by saying to staff "does anyone know any of these people else bin their CVs".

     

    There is another complication if one doesnt come with PR is that the provisional or temporary visas have an expiry date. This immediately in the company's mind translates into "not going to stay" and they rather go with someone with strong links to the community which surprise is a permanent resident or citizen. I even saw a sign up in an employment agency to the effect of if your visa has an expiry date you can only do temporary work (not sure if this is a law or not).

     

    Having battled for nearly 3 years here in Adelaide I am moving on to Melbourne and hope that a bigger city may give me better opportunities.

     

    As a point having an "anglo" background and an "anglo" name and surname is no guarantee it is more your country of origin. This is not about racism this is reality.

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    An important topic this, of course, and we'll each have our own experiences and points of view. There are all kinds of reasons why migrants struggle to find a job - from the 'not what you know but who you know' factor, prejudice of the potential employer, unrealistic expectations of the applicant in how their skills compare to the local market, a flat market etc - and migrants from countries other than the UK and NZ might well find it even more difficult to gain employment (especially if their English isn't too good). This isn't right, but what I find surprising is that someone would find this surprising!

     

    Is there a country where the above doesn't happen? Australia has its faults, and it must be incredibly frustrating not to be given 'a fair go', but it is possible to get on here if you're from a different country - where I work it's like the League of Nations and many workers haven't been in Aus for long.

     

    I came here (admittedly very Anglo Saxon in origin) on a 495 and found that as soon as I stopped pointing out to prospective employers that my visa was temporary (most employers don't know the first thing about visas and only want to know if you have the right to live and work here) I got offered two jobs in the same week. I also know two people who work in local gov roles on temporary visas.

     

    Jim

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    I think it's true to say that in most fields, migrants don't move to Adelaide to further their careers (possibly with the exception oif the medical field as I know Adelaide is considered a Centre of Excellence in some specialisms), but more to change their family's way of living, for the better weather etc. In other threads it has been said how old fashioned Adelaide is compared to the rest of Australia, and I'd be the first to agree there - in fact, that's one of the things I like about it!

     

    As for racism, didn't I read that many Indian students are now moving to Adelaide as they find it less racist than Melbourne?

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    Guest Mitchell

    I recently did ethics training at work and this included diversity scenarios. We all laughed about it as it was like the united nations in our group of senior managers - Brits, scots, Spanish, French and Indian. There may be some problems as in most countries but personally I've yet to see it. Perhaps my company is just one of the good ones.

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    Guest mercury
    An important topic this, of course, and we'll each have our own experiences and points of view. There are all kinds of reasons why migrants struggle to find a job - from the 'not what you know but who you know' factor, prejudice of the potential employer, unrealistic expectations of the applicant in how their skills compare to the local market, a flat market etc - and migrants from countries other than the UK and NZ might well find it even more difficult to gain employment (especially if their English isn't too good). This isn't right, but what I find surprising is that someone would find this surprising!

     

    Is there a country where the above doesn't happen? Australia has its faults, and it must be incredibly frustrating not to be given 'a fair go', but it is possible to get on here if you're from a different country - where I work it's like the League of Nations and many workers haven't been in Aus for long.

     

    I came here (admittedly very Anglo Saxon in origin) on a 495 and found that as soon as I stopped pointing out to prospective employers that my visa was temporary (most employers don't know the first thing about visas and only want to know if you have the right to live and work here) I got offered two jobs in the same week. I also know two people who work in local gov roles on temporary visas.

     

    Jim

     

    Yes, I repeat: I find it very surprising for a country that prides itself on being one of the most multicultural on earth. A lot of these other countries don't go around the world advertising and accepting skilled migrants from everywhere (like Australia does). Let me ask you, if you have a friend that steals does that make it OK? Or if you are stopped by the police for speeding will you say "but my friend was speeding too so i can't accept the ticket?"

     

    After reading your post and Diane's. It looks like Adelaide is not a very cosmopolitan place. If someone is looking for that, please try elsewhere.

     

    As for employers and visas, that was the first thing they asked for when I applied for a job (evidence of PR or proof of citizenship). So you must have been very lucky, or your field doesn't care or you really blend in well. I really have a hard time believing that a person who looked for example Asian in Australia would not be asked for evidence of a PR visa/citizenship before being offered a decent job. I know people who have been told that they will not be hired because they are on a temporary visa (when the job just requires the right to work and is probably just casual work so longevity is not an issue).:err:

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    Guest Guest5035

    Where i work theres Filipinos, Poms and Australians, and i know of some filips getting excellent paid jobs in the mines. Regarding the people getting masters degrees etc etc, sometimes they are not worth the paper they are written on, these "colleges" set up shop, suck in a few hundred students and then give them a certificate that is basically worthless. They work in the lower paid jobs as they are quite happy to do it and the white fella wouldn't work for that low paid money, they can get more on the dole.

     

    stevo

     

    Stevo

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    Guest nomoreengland2011

    Do any of you guys make the effort to speak with Taxi drivers in Adelaide. Many of the taxi drivers are Indian and have either moved over here and studied originally or moved overe here on a regional visa as a skilled migrant. Many of them are qualified professionals who cannot seem to get a job in their chosen career.

     

    Adelaide is a small country town full of small minded people who have never lived outside of Adelaide.

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    Guest Guest5035

    Adelaide is a small country town full of small minded people who have never lived outside of Adelaide.

     

    where do you live my friend.

     

    stevo

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    After reading your post and Diane's. It looks like Adelaide is not a very cosmopolitan place. If someone is looking for that, please try elsewhere.

     

    That would depend on your definition of Cosmopolitan. I think Adelaide is a very multicultural place and have always been impressed by how well all the different nationalities seem to integrate and mix, whilst still managing to keep their cultural identity. I think that those who are looking for somewhere vibrant, buzzing, and at the forefront of many industries would perhaps not choose Adelaide - not many companies have head offices here for example, if that's what you mean by Cosmopolitan. If you were expecting that then perhaps you did not research the place very well beore coming here.

     

    Those that do choose it seem to do so because it is a family-friendly city and a good, relatively safe place to bring up a family, with no one cultural group dominating and people being happy to call themselves "Australian" whether that be "Asian Australian, Pommy Australian or Wog Australian!"

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    Thank you Mercury for exposing this situation - finally someone gets it!!! You are spot on in all you have said about the job market in Adelaide. I came over on a 495 visa being assured that the provisional nature of the visa wouldnt be a handicap - good skills, degrees the whole bit and have applied for a wide range of different jobs at a variety of levels from basic to more senior and have got absolutely nowhere - temporary work they are happy to let you do and managed to fulfil the work requirements for the 495 with temporary work but dont expect permanent roles.

     

    One of the problems with Adelaide is that the large employers are state government, local government and related industries and many of these roles are restricted to citizens or permanent residents which means you dont get that level of diversity. Also being a relatively small market people it is who you know that seems to get you a job. As an example the company I am currently working for selected for one of the roles by saying to staff "does anyone know any of these people else bin their CVs".

     

    There is another complication if one doesnt come with PR is that the provisional or temporary visas have an expiry date. This immediately in the company's mind translates into "not going to stay" and they rather go with someone with strong links to the community which surprise is a permanent resident or citizen. I even saw a sign up in an employment agency to the effect of if your visa has an expiry date you can only do temporary work (not sure if this is a law or not).

     

    Having battled for nearly 3 years here in Adelaide I am moving on to Melbourne and hope that a bigger city may give me better opportunities.

     

    As a point having an "anglo" background and an "anglo" name and surname is no guarantee it is more your country of origin. This is not about racism this is reality.

     

    This is not the point that was being made.

    Everyone knows (or the people that research know) that a temp visa has many drawbacks. These drawback are the same for everyone no matter where they come from or the colour of there skin.

    Adelaide is backwards, again to a certain extent yes but this is a great pull for some people and a main reason for chosing Adelaide as there destination of choice.

    Aussies look after Aussies first, good and so they should do. Its there country.

     

    Im sorry but the origional poster has not shown a balanced case, just a rant due to his misfortunes.

     

    If reaseach has not been carried out then its so easy to blame others for your misfortunes.

     

    My last post on this.

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    Guest mercury
    This is not the point that was being made.

    Everyone knows (or the people that research know) that a temp visa has many drawbacks. These drawback are the same for everyone no matter where they come from or the colour of there skin.

    Adelaide is backwards, again to a certain extent yes but this is a great pull for some people and a main reason for chosing Adelaide as there destination of choice.

    Aussies look after Aussies first, good and so they should do. Its there country.

     

    Im sorry but the origional poster has not shown a balanced case, just a rant due to his misfortunes.

     

    If reaseach has not been carried out then its so easy to blame others for your misfortunes.

     

    My last post on this.

     

    I'm sorry but I just had to answer this one. You state that I have not shown a balanced case and that I am ranting... The fact that I have gotten people who agree with my viewpoint (on this forum and in my links - some are Aussies included) shows that I am not an isolated case. Far from it. Perhaps you are so dismissive because this has not affected you personally? I could be equally dismissive but I will not go there. I will try to stick to the issues at hand.

     

    Your theory that everyone is treated the same does not hold. Do you have evidence to support this or is it an assumption that you are making?

     

    Aussies look after Aussies first?? If that is so, then DIMIA should state that very clearly in their promotional language. No misleading statements! If no one ever raises this issue, some migrants will keep on suffering which is an injustice.

     

    According to the Aussie Racial Discrimination Act of 1975 reflecting the International Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimnation (CERD), Australia (which is a signatory) : "It is unlawful for a person to do any act that involves a distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent or ethnic origin which has the purpose of nullifying or imparing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or fundamental freedom in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life".

     

    So the law is there. It is just not enforced!

     

    By the way- I have a very good job. I started this thread coz I have seen migrants getting a raw deal.:D

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    Guest mercury
    That would depend on your definition of Cosmopolitan. I think Adelaide is a very multicultural place and have always been impressed by how well all the different nationalities seem to integrate and mix, whilst still managing to keep their cultural identity. I think that those who are looking for somewhere vibrant, buzzing, and at the forefront of many industries would perhaps not choose Adelaide - not many companies have head offices here for example, if that's what you mean by Cosmopolitan. If you were expecting that then perhaps you did not research the place very well beore coming here.

     

    Those that do choose it seem to do so because it is a family-friendly city and a good, relatively safe place to bring up a family, with no one cultural group dominating and people being happy to call themselves "Australian" whether that be "Asian Australian, Pommy Australian or Wog Australian!"

     

    From the Princeton Dictionary-Cosmopolitan - composed of people from or at home in many parts of the world; especially not provincial in attitudes or interests. (So I guess that Adelaide doesn't qualify.)

     

    I did my research and have good job and I knew that Adelaide was a small town (with all that entails). What I was expecting was fair treatment of everyone under Australian law (see my previous post).

     

    ADL may be family friendly, safe etc. but what use is it if one can't find employment? Or if only certain groups are desirable?

     

    Why do some people get so defensive when obviously discriminatory issues are raised? Are they scared that if we agree there is discrimination then they will lose their advantage in securing jobs and other social niceties?

     

    Lastly, Anglo-Australians are a clear majority-so I don't agree that no one cultural group dominates.

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    Yes, I repeat: I find it very surprising for a country that prides itself on being one of the most multicultural on earth. A lot of these other countries don't go around the world advertising and accepting skilled migrants from everywhere (like Australia does). Let me ask you, if you have a friend that steals does that make it OK? Or if you are stopped by the police for speeding will you say "but my friend was speeding too so i can't accept the ticket?"

     

    After reading your post and Diane's. It looks like Adelaide is not a very cosmopolitan place. If someone is looking for that, please try elsewhere.

     

    As for employers and visas, that was the first thing they asked for when I applied for a job (evidence of PR or proof of citizenship). So you must have been very lucky, or your field doesn't care or you really blend in well. I really have a hard time believing that a person who looked for example Asian in Australia would not be asked for evidence of a PR visa/citizenship before being offered a decent job. I know people who have been told that they will not be hired because they are on a temporary visa (when the job just requires the right to work and is probably just casual work so longevity is not an issue).:err:

     

    You ended your first post at the start of this thread with 'this is just my experience and I am happy to be challenged on it.' but that doesn't seem to be the case based on your responses to those with a different POV.

     

    I feel for anyone who hasn't had the best of times whilst here, but the point I made is that I'm not surprised that some migrants find it hard to gain employment in little old non-cosmopolitan-but-somewhat-parochial Adelaide. If you are surprised, then so be it – apart from direct anecdotes, a quick google search throws up millions of opinions, articles, discussions, editorials etc both positive and negative on racism and migration in Australia, so plenty of research material exists for would-be migrants considering their options; certainly enough to raise the possibility that some of them (some of us) might struggle.

     

    As for your jibe about Adelaide not being cosmopolitan because of a couple of people's posts on this thread, that's a strange conclusion to draw; I would have expected your direct experience of the place to have influenced you more. I've commented more than a few times on here and other discussion boards that I don't think it's cosmopolitan here and had I wanted that I'd have chosen somewhere else (but then I did my research). :D

     

    You don't need to pose oversimplified hypothetical scenarios in order to wring out of me the injustice of some migrants getting a raw deal; I'd already stated about prejudice 'it isn't right ...' so I'm in no way condoning it. I find racism in any form abhorrent. Fortunately, where I work there are all sorts of people from all kinds of backgrounds, but others' experiences may well be different - as yours seems to be.

     

    Whilst I enjoy a good discussion as much as the next person, that's about all I have to say on this subject. Good luck with your future experiences! ;)

     

    Jim

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    Guest Nick11

    From my experience..if your profession is in demand and you have the right qualifications...it doesn't matter who you are.

    On the other hand if you are chasing a job with lots of other people...it's not what you know..its who you know.

    The best person doesn't necessarily get the job.

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