Double Glazing in Australia

[Guest sithewindows]

Really? uPVC? I thought were only chosen for council houses?

 

Double glazed thermally broken aluminium is the way forward.

 

uPVC have been fitted in some very nice private houses in the UK.

[NicF]

Hi NicF, thanks for the information, sounds quite positive to me. Is it ahouse you are building for yourself?

 

Hi, yes it is a house for us, although we are using Sekisui House to build it for us. It's quite normal over here to buy a block of land and then engage a builder to build it. New estates are mostly built on the same basis, or by house and land packages where you sign up with a particular builder to build a particular house on a particular block. We decided early on we wanted UPVc windows and realised that most builders don't use them as standard so investigated for ourselves, which is why we know there are a few places that do them. In the end our builder kind of deterrmined which company we used. I know a competitor builder uses the same company so maybe that had a bearing on the decision.

[Guest sithewindows]

Hi Si

 

I own a uPVC double glazing company here in Adelaide and am therefore in a position to offer you advice. What I would say in short is you must do your homework thoroughly before committing to anything. The product is very expensive here' date=' I would say at least 3 times that in the UK and that is mainly due to the cost of materials (everything here is imported) and the cost of manufacturing ([u']a lot[/u] more legislation with cost implications here), starting up costs for this is significant.

 

 

Two companies have tried to set up and sell cheaply in the recent past and both ended up out of business - there are so many hidden costs, particularly in a location such as Adelaide. As I said, feel free to PM me I will help you all I can

 

Stuart

 

Hi Stuart, think I may have spoken to you via your website? We have the same problems in the UK. As for legislation and extra costs, I think the UK is getting as bad. Thats for the companies rather than white van man. We will now have to CE mark our windows in July, more cost. This means if you fit IGUs from a different manufacture to your frames, you become the manufacturer? and have to be responsible for the CE marking. Just another wedge between those that comply and those that don't.

[xzibit]

uPVC have been fitted in some very nice private houses in the UK.

 

I've never specified uPVC in my life. Just don't understand why you would choose them over nice timber windows in the UK.

[NicF]

I've never specified uPVC in my life. Just don't understand why you would choose them over nice timber windows in the UK.

 

Timber requires too much maintenance for my liking. Our UPVc windows in the UK still looked like new 6 years after having them put in and required nothing more than a bit of a clean every now and then. If my timber garden furniture is anything to go by timber frames wouldn't last me more than a couple of years.....

[Guest sithewindows]

I don't think it would last to well with Australia's UV levels though. They don't look to special after 5 years in the UK.

 

I would much prefer timber double glazed units in the UK, but would go with ally frames here as they seem to compliment the building style. Commercial section over residential to get some nice chunky frames.

 

AWS have a great range. http://www.awsaustralia.com.au/

 

uPVC looks good for years if they are of good quality and maintained. Rehau have been extruding uPVC frames for over 50 years now and just run a competition for the oldest installation. They found a door 30 years old, and it still looked good.

[Guest sithewindows]

I've never specified uPVC in my life. Just don't understand why you would choose them over nice timber windows in the UK.

 

I think price and maintenance would be the answer to that one. Good quality replacement timber windows would cost approx 3 times the price in the UK and they would need to be repainted at least every 7 years just to be covered under the guarantee.

[ian mc]

Hi Ian, I'm glad we are getting different views on here, as its boring if there all the same. Do you think by having the option, people may also start to improve the overall insulation of their property?

 

I dont know if you know the standard of the timber frame housing here but its nothing like the uk the frames are not sheeted in any way apart for some bracing no building paper wrap no vapour barrier etc its plasterboard. timber frame, insulation if asked for and paid for as an extra,cavity skin of brick or cheeper way blue board or hebal.Dont think they know anything about R values.

[NicF]

I dont know if you know the standard of the timber frame housing here but its nothing like the uk the frames are not sheeted in any way apart for some bracing no building paper wrap no vapour barrier etc its plasterboard. timber frame, insulation if asked for and paid for as an extra,cavity skin of brick or cheeper way blue board or hebal.Dont think they know anything about R values.

 

We've upgraded our insulation to something like R3.5 in the walls and R5 in the ceilings so I think they do know about them. Just not sure it's considered that significant. At the moment all houses have to be built with a six star energy rating. If the government increases the energy rating required builders will have to look at other ways of making houses more efficient and wrapping may have to be the next step.

[ian mc]

The six star energy rating is very easy to get if your house faces a certain way and has windows on certain sides of the house has overhaning eave and the minimum R values Insulation in the walls think its 1.5 and attic you achive the six stars reqired.If I was building a house again here I would get the builder to wrap the house with a VPS some builders are doing it if you ask and pay but not many that would be better than just the timber frame and the insulation jammed in between it held in place with string They will catch up with modern building methods sometime in the future but for us it will be too late.

 

We've upgraded our insulation to something like R3.5 in the walls and R5 in the ceilings so I think they do know about them. Just not sure it's considered that significant. At the moment all houses have to be built with a six star energy rating. If the government increases the energy rating required builders will have to look at other ways of making houses more efficient and wrapping may have to be the next step.

[Guest patsmb]

Thanks for your reply. When you move I will hopefully be there, you could be my first show home as it sounds like your a good sales person for my industry.

 

You can practise on our house I would love UPVC !

We had 5 years in the UK 2001 -2006 and when we returned to Oz had forgotten how cold the houses are in winter

Would love the windows and doors plus a combi boiler with radiators

[Guest sithewindows]

You can practise on our house I would love UPVC !

We had 5 years in the UK 2001 -2006 and when we returned to Oz had forgotten how cold the houses are in winter

Would love the windows and doors plus a combi boiler with radiators

Thanks for the offer............. After 30 years I don't think I need the practise, but would like to give you a quote one day.

[Guest smit]

Really? uPVC? I thought were only chosen for council houses?

 

Double glazed thermally broken aluminium is the way forward.

Really? Ive spent 25 years in the window industry, including 6 years here. In the time here I havent found a decent draughtproof aluminium window out of all the companies!!!. And as for new residential windows ( aluminium), I used to rip similar out in UK and throw in the skip 20 years ago.

[Guest sithewindows]

Really? Ive spent 25 years in the window industry, including 6 years here. In the time here I havent found a decent draughtproof aluminium window out of all the companies!!!. And as for new residential windows ( aluminium), I used to rip similar out in UK and throw in the skip 20 years ago.

 

Hi Smit, sounds like you know what you are talking about, unlike some on here. The only thing that has changed is our fitters take them to the scrapy rather than the skip.

[jimmyskinner]

Hi Smit, sounds like you know what you are talking about, unlike some on here. The only thing that has changed is our fitters take them to the scrapy rather than the skip.

And talk about secure, most houses we do refits we can be in the house in 10 seconds with a battery drill.

[xzibit]

Hi Smit, sounds like you know what you are talking about, unlike some on here. The only thing that has changed is our fitters take them to the scrapy rather than the skip.

 

Yep I know nothing. But then we only specify top of the range fittings.

 

uPVC windows look terrible and have made UK housing estates new and old become an eyesore.

 

They have their place if your on a budget, but until you can thin down the frame profile, and give them an attractive finish - why would anyone with even a tiny sense of design want them?

 

I'm out. But before I go I do want to say that I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or troll, I genuinely have a dislike for everything uPVC windows stand for and curse their invention. By no means am I saying the single glazed aluminium crap you get here is any better, but a decent, thermally broken (non continuous construction) frame with a double glazed unit that has been fitted properly (not by any of tradie) will perform as well if not better, and so much more aesthetically pleasing.

[Guest sithewindows]

Yep I know nothing. But then we only specify top of the range fittings.

 

uPVC windows look terrible and have made UK housing estates new and old become an eyesore.

 

They have their place if your on a budget, but until you can thin down the frame profile, and give them an attractive finish - why would anyone with even a tiny sense of design want them?

 

I'm out. But before I go I do want to say that I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or troll, I genuinely have a dislike for everything uPVC windows stand for and curse their invention. By no means am I saying the single glazed aluminium crap you get here is any better, but a decent, thermally broken (non continuous construction) frame with a double glazed unit that has been fitted properly (not by any of tradie) will perform as well if not better, and so much more aesthetically pleasing.

 

Did you think I meant you??? If your not out of here yet could you answer the following for me? Do you have T/Break ally in Aus? Do you specify double glazed, Argon or Krypton gas filled sealed units? Is the term tradie not good in Aus then?

[Guest Guest5035]

I am looking to migrate in the next few months to the Adelaide area. In the UK I run a small home improvement company and would like to carry on in the same industry in Aus. If I was able to offer uPVC double glazed windows and doors at a reasonable price, do you think there would be a market for them? Bearing in mind they save money on heating and cooling.

Si

 

Hi Smit, sounds like you know what you are talking about, unlike some on here. .

 

mate you opened this thread with the above question, asking for peoples opinions on double glazing, people have responded on their thoughts, then later you slag them off saying they don't know what they are talking about. With that attitude your company will do well here...

 

 

stevo

[Guest patsmb]

That was tongue in cheek by the way but I would like to find out just what a UPVC window would cost as i loved mine in the UK

My son is a glazier we have glass galore just no plastic frames !

[Guest sithewindows]

mate you opened this thread with the above question, asking for peoples opinions on double glazing, people have responded on their thoughts, then later you slag them off saying they don't know what they are talking about. With that attitude your company will do well here...

 

 

stevo

 

I was talking about the fact that "uPVC windows are only used in council houses", Totally wrong!

As for slaging them off? Is it not ok to disagree with someone? Perhaps I should have worded that better?

[Guest smit]

And talk about secure, most houses we do refits we can be in the house in 10 seconds with a battery drill.

Can do most without battery drill!!!.. On the other hand theres ways and means of getting into most UPVC windows as well, just more tricky and time consuming. Wheres theres glass...............

[Guest smit]

Oh dear ...havent been on for ages .....but hey Im not taking sides ...just saying what I know . Will reply with quotes to 2 previous posts

[Guest smit]

By no means am I saying the single glazed aluminium crap you get here is any better, but a decent, thermally broken (non continuous construction) frame with a double glazed unit that has been fitted properly (not by any of tradie) will perform as well if not better, and so much more aesthetically pleasing.

Yep, I agree with your comment that windows need to be fitted by someone that knows what they are doing with windows. Unfortunately Oz builders refuse to accept , or should I say SA builders, the decent way and weathertight way of installing them. ( They do in Nt btw cos of cyclones!!)

I have fitted, and project managed many high end jobs here in SA , up to $500k just in aluminium windows on single jobs.This includes the "New", thermal break windows.

Virtually all aluminium windows , are just held together with 2 screws at the corner, if they are mitred , they have a jointing liquid put over them , if they are butted, like commercial they have a tape. Not the best way of sealing!!!. I have yet to see a decent sealed mitred aluminium window once it has been transported!!!.

Thermal transfer between thermal break ally and upvc is a no contest, Upvc outstrips ally hands down, I was actually surprised by the corresponding figures.

The biggest problem with ally windows here, is the fact that you havent got any decent locking mechanisms or decent draughtproofing gaskets. On upvc you tend to have espagnolette or multi point locking systems that compress the door/ window sash all round. Ally doesnt!!.

 

Because of this fact , you can design more with Ally windows, because they havent got the weatherproofing capabilities and restrictions of upvc windows. Multi bi folds and six stacker ally sliders spring to mind.

When I was fitting, the'in'thing on big expensive houses was to have 2.7 or 3.0m high doors. Looked nice, but no draughtproofing on the top 1/3rd of door owing to lack of compression when the single latch was at 1150 high!!. Even with shoot bolts top and bottom they complained that the door had to be pushed in for the locks to engage.

 

 

Anyway , thats enough of the rambling, In my mind, yes you can design bigger and more designer looking windows with ally but without the thermal values of UPVC.

Its a choice I suppose

 

Ian

Edited January 22, 2013 by smit

[Guest smit]

Did you think I meant you??? If your not out of here yet could you answer the following for me? Do you have T/Break ally in Aus? Do you specify double glazed, Argon or Krypton gas filled sealed units? Is the term tradie not good in Aus then?

Right , Ive answered one side Ill do the other. YES there is thermal break here, its new to the last 2/3 years really. Yes you can get aron/ krypton glass. Yes also to getting large panes of comfort plus and variations of coated laminated panes which you might not have in UK.

It is a very different market to UK and in fact , believe it or not., its a different country with different values and history.I know you are trying to gain information from the UK , but I would be hesitant to rebuff peoples comments even though you might not agree. You dont know until you are here. Im sure Stuart will tell you that.

I would read the information kindly posted and make your own mind up to what you think . As you can see , people have different views and opinions , Im not right or wrong, neither is the other poster , its just our opinion. I believe the other poster may be an architect or specifier. Ive been a fitter and a purchaser and project manager. Our experiences are differnt on the same prroduct.

 

Good luck anyway in whatever you do

 

Ian

 

Ps Glass is very very expensive here. I looked into buying sealed unit equipment here and setting up a small co. However to get the toughened glass needed in a hurry to provide a service at reasonable cost, you would have to go through Chevron or Viridian, the only makers of sealed units!!!.

If you get around this , there would be an opening

Edited January 22, 2013 by smit

[Guest sithewindows]

That was tongue in cheek by the way but I would like to find out just what a UPVC window would cost as i loved mine in the UK

My son is a glazier we have glass galore just no plastic frames !

Yes so was mine. Just trying to find out if there is a call for a better window than the one's I have seen there. Lived in WA in 2007 and have also been back to Quensland last year.