warning to plumber well its my opinion!!!!!!!!

[Jessica Berry]

There has been a thread advising plumbers on issues running for almost 2 years, it is in the Jobs & Careers section and has pride of place at the top in its own section..............

 

http://www.pomsinadelaide.com/forum/jobs-careers/23276-plumbing-workers.html

[Guest Guest9815]

Hello - I am new to this site, and love it already.

I came to Adelaide with my parents as a young teenager, back in 1975 - i thought for the next 20yrs it was the worse thing anyone could have done to me, bringing me to a far away country away from all my friends. But by the time i went back to Birmingham it was over 20yrs later, and realised it was the best thing anyone could have done for me.

I had married and had a family bought property and had a successful business, none of which any of my friends back ( home ) had been able to do not all of these things - they may have one or the other, but not all.

I now live on a 860 Acre property in country SA with a lake and ducks, rabbits and sheep. ( mozzies and milipedes ) too. I divorced, and sold my business, and am now looking for employment - kids are grown up and gone, my home is now my castle, and i think it is the most beautiful place on earth, such a good view from any of the windows i look out of throughout the day.

the sun sets in the evening are just magnificent. I think after reading some of the dissapointments in the forums i feel like saying, yes you are right it does have something missing here in australia, but that is something that is in your heart from your younger days of memories, and it will never go away, but life here in australia is nothing but glorious, really, and i feel that you just may need to give it a bit more time. Try not to live in the past, and not to wear your heart on you sleeve, but grab hold of the future, cus that is where Australia takes you. I am still a british citizen, and havent got my Aussie papers, and have held of doing that for the fear of letting go of my heritage, but realistically, i have now been here twice as many years as i was ever in England, funny how you hold onto it.

 

Hi BC,

 

Sorry but I cant say I really follow your logic there, and you are a minority as not everyone is as wealthy as you, as for the view from your window, well like you say, 'that is your view'...anyway.. I have also done well for myself but this was back in the uk, I had a very successful construction and property business, in fact I still have all the property, maybe if I'd moved over here all them years ago like you I would have also made the same success here, (saying that I was born in 1975) I don't believe there is the opportunities in Australia anymore, I haven't been here long so I am actually using recent experiences and I am not living in the past, but I have been in Australia long enough to know its not for me or my family, theres not enough here if you ask me etc etc.. I'm leaving before the dumbing down starts to set in! Everyone has different circumstances, likes and needs in life, therefore just maybe Australia is not for them..its not a crime! but Australia is far from the best place in the world, if you believe it is then you haven't been to many places, buts thats your opinion just as it is mine. Its ok advising people to give it time, but theres lots of things that will never change in Australia, so giving it time is also known as wasting your time, giving it time is more a case of getting used to the things you dislike, AKA, DUMBING DOWN, like I say, not the case for everyone like I said.

[minty]

Hi BC,

 

Sorry but I cant say I really follow your logic there, and you are a minority as not everyone is as wealthy as you, as for the view from your window, well like you say, 'that is your view'...anyway.. I have also done well for myself but this was back in the uk, I had a very successful construction and property business, in fact I still have all the property, maybe if I'd moved over here all them years ago like you I would have also made the same success here, (saying that I was born in 1975) I don't believe there is the opportunities in Australia anymore, I haven't been here long so I am actually using recent experiences and I am not living in the past, but I have been in Australia long enough to know its not for me or my family, theres not enough here if you ask me etc etc.. I'm leaving before the dumbing down starts to set in! Everyone has different circumstances, likes and needs in life, therefore just maybe Australia is not for them..its not a crime! but Australia is far from the best place in the world, if you believe it is then you haven't been to many places, buts thats your opinion just as it is mine. Its ok advising people to give it time, but theres lots of things that will never change in Australia, so giving it time is also known as wasting your time, giving it time is more a case of getting used to the things you dislike, AKA, DUMBING DOWN, like I say, not the case for everyone like I said.

 

Should we have not realised that it is behind the times before we came though? Adelaide is well known for being in the past and behind with the times. I like it for that reason but knew that before I came here.

[Toni]

I keep thinking no.... I shouldn't ask.....shouldn't.....shouldn't....no don't do it....oh what the heck I am going to ask... as I don't understand. What does DUMBING DOWN mean. ..does it mean that the rest of us who like living in Adelaide have dumbed down?

[minty]

By this logic dumb must mean you knew what you were getting into and therefore happy with what you got where as clever means not realising what you were getting into and not happy when you find out what you got was not what you wanted.

[Toni]

By this logic dumb must mean you knew what you were getting into and therefore happy with what you got where as clever means not realising what you were getting into and not happy when you find out what you got was not what you wanted.

 

Ok, I like that answer....understand it even.

[Guest Guest9815]

I keep thinking no.... I shouldn't ask.....shouldn't.....shouldn't....no don't do it....oh what the heck I am going to ask... as I don't understand. What does DUMBING DOWN mean. ..does it mean that the rest of us who like living in Adelaide have dumbed down?

 

Kris, let me explain..

 

Dumbing down is the ignoring of ones own instinctive judgment/perception/outlook/qualities, in order to fit in with the general view or requirement. A view/requirement that bases itself on the principle of the 'easiest option'.

 

Thus it is capitulating to a standard not held by intellect or skill, but by the influence of others. The laziest of options.

 

Dumbing down is the 'fit in or f..k off' of opinion; of qualification!!

 

The ultimate 'race to the bottom'. (Another Au phrase. You have to wonder how it came about.....)

[Guest Guest9815]

By this logic dumb must mean you knew what you were getting into and therefore happy with what you got where as clever means not realising what you were getting into and not happy when you find out what you got was not what you wanted.

 

" No it means exactly the opposite, but at least you've proved my point".

[minty]

Your proving my point Chris, good luck to people who go back at the end of the day we all do our own thing but I don't understand why you have to slate the place and the people who like it to "justify" your going back. You keep mentioning how smart you are, but smart in my opinion is people who say I have gave it a go and it's not for me or just admit they made a mistake by not knowing what it was they were getting into. Good luck to you on your return and I hope you find happiness when you get there and you don't have to do this all again when you remember why you left in the first place.

[Toni]

Kris, let me explain..

 

Dumbing down is the ignoring of ones own instinctive judgment/perception/outlook/qualities, in order to fit in with the general view or requirement. A view/requirement that bases itself on the principle of the 'easiest option'.

 

Thus it is capitulating to a standard not held by intellect or skill, but by the influence of others. The laziest of options.

 

Dumbing down is the 'fit in or f..k off' of opinion; of qualification!!

 

The ultimate 'race to the bottom'. (Another Au phrase. You have to wonder how it came about.....)

 

Chris, I think I understand your perspective now. It comes from an "employer" or "business owner" point of view. I have been both. I think being an employee you do have to "fit in". I don't think that this is a unique Aussie thing. I think your employees in the UK would have had to fit in or they would have had to f&^k off also. I think it is hard to work for someone else when you are used to being your own boss. Not meaning to be rude but if you are not prepared to "fit in" then no employer, whether it be in Oz or anyone else in the world will employ you or if they do - well you won't be there for long.

[minty]

I've thought long and hard about this and I put emigrating down to 3 steps. The first is research, when you get here "nothing" should be a surprise If it is then you have ballsed up. Then it comes down to step 2 which is attitude, if there were no surprises you can go straight to step 3 but if you have ballsed up and get surprises when you get here people do one of Two things. The first is to not admit they have made mistakes and to blame everyone and everything else and the second group say dam I should have known that but I'm going to do everything I can to get around it. The last is a slice of luck which we have no control over.

Edited February 2, 2013 by minty

[Guest magicsprout]

I've thought long and hard about this and I put emigrating down to 3 steps. The first is research, when you get here "nothing" should be a surprise If it is then you have ballsed up. Then it comes down to step 2 which is attitude, if there were no surprises you can go straight to step 3 but if you have ballsed up and get surprises when you get here people do one of Two things. The first is to not admit they have made mistakes and to blame everyone and everything else and the second group say dam I should have known that but I'm going to do everything I can to get around it. The last is a slice of luck which we have no control over.

wholeheartedly agree with the attitude bit especially, we are now the floods of immigrants coming in and taking the jobs and we have to walk the fine line of both fitting in and proving ourselves.

I was chatting to a colleague last week about visas and ended up on the receiving end of a rant about foreign nurses taking the jobs and new grad nurses struggling, (think she forgot who she was talking to for a while).

[flossybeth]

Kris, let me explain..

 

Dumbing down is the ignoring of ones own instinctive judgment/perception/outlook/qualities, in order to fit in with the general view or requirement. A view/requirement that bases itself on the principle of the 'easiest option'.

 

Thus it is capitulating to a standard not held by intellect or skill, but by the influence of others. The laziest of options.

 

Dumbing down is the 'fit in or f..k off' of opinion; of qualification!!

 

The ultimate 'race to the bottom'. (Another Au phrase. You have to wonder how it came about.....)

 

Actually this is what dumbing down means according to the Cambridge Dictionary "to make something simpler and easier for people to understand, especially in order to make it more popular" and it usually relates to media with regards to popular culture.

 

I think perhaps you're just a little cross the man didn't give you his job - if you'd made me sit through a powerpoint presentation when I hadn't asked for one I think I might be just as inclined as he was to decide you weren't the right person to work with me. Maybe you need to prove your jobskills rather than just show-off and also understand that although Australia appears, before you get here, to be a sunny UK it is in fact a country on the other side of the world influenced far more by all of the nations it has taken in and its proximity to Asia then it has been by "The British".

[Jessica Berry]

wholeheartedly agree with the attitude bit especially, we are now the floods of immigrants coming in and taking the jobs and we have to walk the fine line of both fitting in and proving ourselves.

 

I agree too. Attitude is so important. Why would you not want to fit in and embrace living in Australia? If you don't want this, why did you come? At the end of the day we have chose to leave the UK (for whatever reason), no one forced us to fill out the paperwork, engage a migration agent, pay the fees, get our skills assessed, leave our houses, jobs, our family and friends and we also have a choice that if we are not happy here (for whatever reason) we can choose to go back to the UK.

 

People in the UK constantly moan about how the Indians, Pakistanis, Polish etc come over to the UK and 'don't fit in' or 'take our jobs' but when the poms go abroad they think it is ok to turn the country into 'Little Britain'. If the UK is so great, why did we leave in the first place?

 

Times have changed, jobs in Australia are harder to come by and there is a lot of competition for work. I have read time and time again that people 'are prepared to do anything' jobwise but in reality this is often not true and then they moan about having to start at the bottom or doing lower level work.

 

I worked with a polish bloke who came to Adelaide as a student to learn English. In Poland he had his own successful IT business, his own house, decent car and had a successful and financially sound life by polish standards. As he could not speak a word of English when he came, the only job he could get was as a cleaner. He took this job, studied English and the rest they say is history. He now runs his own IT business in Adelaide, does not do any advertising as all of his customers come via word of mouth. He came with the attitude that he would succeed and was going to make a go of it. I have never heard him moan once, he is proud to tell his story of how he started out and what he has achieved so far.

 

At the end of the day life in Adelaide is not for everyone, some will flourish and some will flounder on the journey and starting a new life, but we all have choices.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Jessica Berry

[Guest dalton]

If you dont mind me asking, what U.K. plumbing quals did you go over with? I'm Advanced Craft City and Guilds, Gas Safe reg., CSCS site work, CSTS confined spaces, Ground and Air source heat pump qualified and have done a basic air-con course, also a basic solar powered installation course and not forgetting my on site first aiders. I'm getting a bit worried now reading your thread as I have my AFQ 3 IN GENERAL PLUMBING as I was advised to go general plumbing rather than specialised through skills asses. it seems all my past experiance, skills and knowledge stands for nothing.

Any advice on this would be great.

Best Regards,

gary.

 

 

had my own business for many years was level three city n guilds qualified pretty much most tickets pipe fitter & commercial gas engineer over 15 years experience but doesn't count for much you still have to do the 1-1/2 years of bull**** coarses at TAFE. Its not hard just insulting sitting in with first years telling you how to suck eggs.

The moneys not really there either.#But i guess if you stick with it get all qualls again there are better jobs in different states if you want that. The mines are very clicky who you no. But i would say depends on you age if you young enough its worth doing the tickets.

I had a trade job jacked it to much digging doing sales now.. funny

well good luck

[Guest Guest11535]

Thank you for the advice "dalton", I understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day I will be the migrant worker in another country and if I have to go to college to get up to Aussie spec and to fit in then it has to be done.

[Guest Mitch78]

I agree too. Attitude is so important. Why would you not want to fit in and embrace living in Australia? If you don't want this, why did you come? At the end of the day we have chose to leave the UK (for whatever reason), no one forced us to fill out the paperwork, engage a migration agent, pay the fees, get our skills assessed, leave our houses, jobs, our family and friends and we also have a choice that if we are not happy here (for whatever reason) we can choose to go back to the UK.

 

People in the UK constantly moan about how the Indians, Pakistanis, Polish etc come over to the UK and 'don't fit in' or 'take our jobs' but when the poms go abroad they think it is ok to turn the country into 'Little Britain'. If the UK is so great, why did we leave in the first place?

 

Times have changed, jobs in Australia are harder to come by and there is a lot of competition for work. I have read time and time again that people 'are prepared to do anything' jobwise but in reality this is often not true and then they moan about having to start at the bottom or doing lower level work.

 

I worked with a polish bloke who came to Adelaide as a student to learn English. In Poland he had his own successful IT business, his own house, decent car and had a successful and financially sound life by polish standards. As he could not speak a word of English when he came, the only job he could get was as a cleaner. He took this job, studied English and the rest they say is history. He now runs his own IT business in Adelaide, does not do any advertising as all of his customers come via word of mouth. He came with the attitude that he would succeed and was going to make a go of it. I have never heard him moan once, he is proud to tell his story of how he started out and what he has achieved so far.

 

At the end of the day life in Adelaide is not for everyone, some will flourish and some will flounder on the journey and starting a new life, but we all have choices.

 

 

I disagree I have had experience over 11 yrs in Australia every state. I to was a 4 yr apprenticeship trained pipe fitter / plumber with 18 yrs experience behind me I had numerous Uk qualifications and certs behind me and used to run my own jobs. I was prepared to do what ever it took in order for me to become Australian qualified and to settel in. I jumped through every hoop done everything asked of me invested so much money into their country and my time.

Now I still find it hard or impossible to get a job. I apply to jobs never hear anything back not even an acknowledgment or a reason why I have been unsuccessful so I can build on it. But a week or two later the same job is being readvertised so just assume my resume goes straight in the bin. I have been discriminated against many a time when it comes to work in this country. Again same with the mines you have to know people to even get on them!

Its all well and good somebody saying you need to embrace their country but look at me !. I'v found it to be a complete nightmare here in this country if you are a plumber or an electrician and originally from the UK! How many people who say its not so bad to retrain and spend more money have actually had to do this them selves?

I have found it really depends what industry you are in or what your back ground is.Many of my friends from the Uk here in Oz work in I.T they didn't need to do any retraining some just relocated from Uk straight into another position here in Oz on good money while I still struggle!

In the very start I did consider giving up on the plumbing altogether on advice from others, again I paid for and done loads of different courses and got the licences or other crap bits of paper needed where did that get me nowhere because i then kept on getting told I had no experience so therefore wouldn't be employed. what about if you are even refused a plumbing licence for what ever reason it has happened to some one i know and it was nothing to do with anything they had done personally !

So much for Australians embracing the Uk when they come. The Aussie plumbers can't do everything we do. Do they have to spend time retraining and investing into the Uk economy by paying for courses ? Were they paying tax like the rest of us ?

[Guest Mitch78]

If you dont mind me asking, what U.K. plumbing quals did you go over with? I'm Advanced Craft City and Guilds, Gas Safe reg., CSCS site work, CSTS confined spaces, Ground and Air source heat pump qualified and have done a basic air-con course, also a basic solar powered installation course and not forgetting my on site first aiders. I'm getting a bit worried now reading your thread as I have my AFQ 3 IN GENERAL PLUMBING as I was advised to go general plumbing rather than specialised through skills asses. it seems all my past experiance, skills and knowledge stands for nothing.

Any advice on this would be great.

Best Regards,

gary.

 

 

Just out of interest why did you bother wasting money doing courses in the UK if it was your intention to come out to Oz ? None of what you have in the Uk is excepted in Oz except maybe the gas but depends on what state you go to each state is different !

[Guest Mitch78]

Well that's it were are done going back after a year & a half of battling the system, its just to dam hard. Plumbers on the the critical skills list my ass.

I was UK business owner for 7 years commercial gas regulated a pipe fitter top of my gain here i'm subject to 1-1/2 years of trade school sat in with year one apprentices degrading is an understatement & for what just to get a ticket to take me to were i was 15/20 years ago.

Plumbing here is very different very very basic & if you like to dig you may just love it??

We have a 15 year not old daughter that pines for her old life can blame her there nothing much to do here, shes not settled no real friends, boy she has tried bless here. I just want to see here smile again.

I no i'm ranting but the so called dream that is portrayed to you from the UK i believe is full of frustrating flaws & red tape & battle after battle.

I have worked in sales here for the past 10 months as i cannot get a trade job unless i'm prepared to take a trainee position not having a full licence an all can even apply for a job in other states as once again not qualified. So i completed about 8 weeks full time at trade school about 3 left to get my level 3 ticket basic plumbing license. 12 months masters evening course to go NA!! The job situation is poor at the moment & so is the pay its just not worth the hard yarn.

Adelaide it a pretty place & the weather is fantastic but for us that all, in the end i believe home is were the heart is family & friends.

UK has many many many flaws but at least life is more affordable & hopefully more fulfilling again, great pubs cheap booze & a Primark for the girls LOL.

For some who have settled good on ya but most Poms i speak to have been here many years still question whether they will stay, i don't want to be that person 6 years down the line still looking back. Good luck to you all it not for the faint hearted.

 

 

Well done I think you have made the right choice I always thought it would be easier once I had the PR which is not the case I have always struggled over the years! I knew what to expect when I first came over on a working holiday visa to suss the country out. I was expecting a hard struggle but its just dragged on like this for many years !!! even once Aus qualified !

Edited February 19, 2013 by Mitch78

[Jessica Berry]

Now I still find it hard or impossible to get a job. I apply to jobs never hear anything back not even an acknowledgment or a reason why I have been unsuccessful so I can build on it. But a week or two later the same job is being readvertised so just assume my resume goes straight in the bin.

 

I am just wondering why you aren't coming along to my workshop and I may be able to offer you some help and advice.

 

http://www.pomsinadelaide.com/forum/jobs-careers/35963-resume-job-advice-guidance-workshop-9-march-2013-a.html

[zebedee]

Much as though I find IT a bit of a drag some days, I'm very thankful that it's been a fairly easy transfer after reading the stories here - although still got a couple of weeks left on my probation period yet

[Guest dalton]

Thanks that helps good luck bin plumbing lol

[Guest Mitch78]

I am just wondering why you aren't coming along to my workshop and I may be able to offer you some help and advice.

 

http://www.pomsinadelaide.com/forum/jobs-careers/35963-resume-job-advice-guidance-workshop-9-march-2013-a.html

 

 

Wow thanks for the info I have only just joined up to Poms in Adelaide I never knew it existed !!!

 

Thanks

[Guest Guest11535]

@ Mitch78, the courses were done so that I could be at the top of my game over here in the UK. Just like once I'm in Oz I I'll treat the courses over there as refresher courses with an Aussie twist and all being well I will be at the top of my game once the courses are bagged and passed. IMO the money wasn't wasted on the courses over here in the UK as I had learnt from them and passed them, now if I had done them and failed them then that would have been a waste of money.

best regards

Gary

 

 

Also if I hadn't done the courses I wouldn't have been able to get my visa as a plumber.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Guest11535

[Guest plumber leigh]

I have been here 12 months tomorrow and completed my cert 3 plumbing and gas, my cert 4 gas, business courses and contractors license!!!!, yes its been a hard slog and a lot of study, have i learnt anything, YES!!!

They do a lot of things different over here, and if we didnt do the courses we would fall flat on our faces, however i think it could be done with lot shorter courses, as it is the same principles but with different standards. I went through TAFE and found them to be very helpfull, if not a bit of a pain at times.

However there are big changes ahead which is going to make things a lot harder for migrant plumbers, more courses and lots more money, this has been down to one migrant plumber who has tried to shaft the system from day one!!!, i wont mention names but this Scotish father and son have ruined it for everyone including them selves, they tried every which way to get out of doing the courses and even got legal advisers to try and take on the TAFE. I feel for you guys coming over now as they are even talking about migrants having to complete the full apprenteship. My advise would be to give Matt Hills a call at regency TAFE