Is it time to stop bringing any more migrants in?

[Diane]

Very interesting article on InDaily today about how politicians in SA have for years been talking up the economy, despite all economic indicators to the contrary:

 

Commercial and residential construction has been in a slump since 2008.

Manufacturing activity has been declining since 1998.

Federal defence spending cuts have hit that sector hard.

Population growth is well short of national trends and has been for years

Unemployment is rising.

Other than Westfield’s upgrade of Marion Shopping Centre, almost every major construction project is publicly funded, exposing us to a jolt if federal infrastructure funds dry up.

State debt leaves little room to initiate activity.

Interest rates on that debt will increase due to the loss of the state’s Triple A credit rating.

Your house is worth less in real terms than it was and the slump continues.

Retail trade is struggling and many small businesses live close to the edge.

We’ve got a strong agricultural sector, a new logo and that’s about it.

 

See http://www.indaily.com.au/?iid=76479&sr=0# for full article

[Guest smit]

I was reading the other week that casual and contract labour now comprises 27.9 percent of the Australian workforce—second only to Chile within the OECD.

It used to be 2nd only to Spain with its tourist jobs.............obviously no jobs in Spain now!

 

To be a union orientated country , makes you wonder what they are up too ....or not?????

​

[Guest smit]

I think the only people that woud call you selfish would be the ones wanting to come over! (unless you are also a lolly-hogger!)

 

I totally agree with all your posts on this. Part of me feels mean but the realities of life mean I need to consider the financial survival of my family.

 

I have a son who is desperate to work, bills I can hardly meet and a casual contract with hours which diminish every year.

 

I am sure Flo will find people who enjoy shorter hours but, as you say Diane, most people want permanancy and more hours. If you choose part time hours then good for you, but for those of us that have gone from full time to 21 hours a week, it SUCKS! The industry I work in is probably like most others now - they have to penny pinch to survive and fight against offering permanancy. Temporary contracts work well for them, not us. Our load is 22% which means we are not eligible for sick pay. We have no guarantees for future employment. No holiday pay - and please do not tell me the extra 22% pays for that as our rate is pretty derisory at best. I love my job and, in an over-competitive market, am lucky to have it.

 

My son is not eligible for any Centrelink payments as we are expected to provide for him. Obviously that's our responsibility as parents and we love him but his life is limited by the fact we cannot afford to buy him new clothes etc or pay for him to be the lovable larrikin he should be at his age. I know heaps of kids that have left school but cannot find work. They are bored, frustrated and on the road to depression. In spite of the sun! I know adults who have been retrenched, fired etc and they are struggling to keep their homes and that's grim.

 

We now have third-generation unemployed. The current situation is not helping, just adding to the statistics.

 

If you want to come to SA, good on you. It's a lovely place to live if you have a job. If you don't have a job, then you might find your vision of paradise sorely affected. The jobs on the wanted list are not usually reflected in Adelaide so if migrants are allowed to continue coming, I totally agree that they should have to go where they are needed. And I reckon you will soon find out WHY people are not flocking to fill those positions.

 

​LC

Spot on.....casual labour means crap labour ....but if its all you can get...you do it!!!!! far too much casual labour!!!

[Guest Shanners]

Good inflation figures today... potential for further interest rate cuts... more money in our pockets... greater capacity for spending.... growth in business revenue..... more jobs.....for aussies and migrants

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Diane]

Good inflation figures today... potential for further interest rate cuts... more money in our pockets... greater capacity for spending.... growth in business revenue..... more jobs.....for aussies and migrants

 

Maybe in the long term - although there is so much over-inflated hype in both the Advertiser and from the State politicians spruiking up the economic prospects for South Australia, but very little real evidence of any upturn in the foreseeable future. In fact, from the grass roots level, it looks pretty much as bad as I've ever seen it. To an optimist I guess that means things can only get better, but we could easily bob along on the bottom for quite some time before seeing any improvements. South Australians apparently have lower savings than anywhere else in Australia, which to me is more evidence that outgoings are increasingly rising, whilst income is dropping, meaning people are having to dig into their savings just to survive on a day to day basis. There's little or no job security for those people already here, or the children of people already here - I just don't think bringing in more and more migrants with the promise of available jobs is the answer at the moment, and anyone considering coming needs to be very aware of this.

 

Temporary visas which allow the employer to offload overseas staff easily seem to be becoming more and more popular - there have been some horror stories over on the parent site, Poms in Oz, recently. If I was a migrant coming to South Australia now, I would be making very, very sure I didn't burn any bridges behind me in a hurry....

[Lazy Cow]

Flo, there's an old adage about when you've dug a hole for yourself the first thing you should do is stop digging.

Jim (of the masculine gender)

 

So true and I guess it means I shouldn't comment on this:

 

 

my impression is that this forum (and this thread) is more frequented by women' date=' and indeed many mothers, and I thought it would be easier for you to relate to [b']the desire of a mother to combine work and family life in a more balanced way.[/b]

 

so I shan't because that would be a different debate!

 

LC

[Guest Helchops]

I've been pondering this one since the thread started. Normally I'm the first to get involved with contentious topics, but I'm trying to calm down a little and see both sides of a story...so, here goes...

 

Diane, I do question the fact that a moderator on a migration site wants to stop migration...I'm thinking there is a contradiction somewhere in there. I think you've been saddened by recent turns of events personally, and I think you could be lashing out at the people you see who could be responsible...i.e. the people stealing the jobs...i.e. me, and many members on here.

 

I have only just moved here with my family and we couldn't be happier. It really has been hard road; and I feel like by putting in those (very) hard yards, we've earnt the right to the jobs we've managed to secure. I would be genuinely hurt if someone actually meant it when they said I shouldn't have those jobs and somebody else, who had lived here longer than me, deserved them more. We cast aside our comfortable life in the UK to make a go of it elsewhere. We're paying taxes, spending every cent we earn on food and putting that back into the economy...Maybe I'm biased, but if someone has the guts to do that, I really feel that they deserve to have the chance to make a success of it.

 

Free trade demands that the most qualified people secure the jobs suitable for them. Personally I feel that it shouldn't matter whether you're from India, the UK, or Eastern Europe...if you can do a job better than me, then good on 'ya and go for it - that's surely the receipie for growth and success...hard work, self improvement etc. Bear in mind, I don't say that lightly as I have a family to feed and I know only too well the pain of suffering financially - but I don't believe that free trade should or does award complacence.

 

I've also been on the employee and employer side of the coin - and to the 'temporary versus permanent' argument...You can have a permanent job and think you're safe; but when the company goes bust, new owners come in, shake ups etc you can be on the line just as much as anyone.

 

Nothing in this world is certain - not jobs, health, life...to quote a good musical; everything is 'only for now'.

 

Migrants create demand. Diane mentioned that SA is 'behind' in it's population growth statistics. Well, great, let's get more businesses in, more people to create opportunities for demand, infrastructure, houses etc.

 

Finally, go on a tour of the UK. In fact go on a tour of most of Europe and parts of the US. I promise that Adelaide and surrounding suburbs look a thousand times better. There are much less empty shops, no deserted towns/high streets - what this place needs is optimism that we will ride the storm - and compassion so that we band together and help each other out.

 

Rhetoric on hate and negativity isn't really going to help...it's also infectious - but it definitely doesn't help. Let's be positive. Adelaide has a lot going for it, and it's time will come to boom, just like WA...in the meantime, if anyone's short of a hot meal because of a ruthless faceless company making cuts, they're welcome round my place.

 

To those that want to make a new life, have read this thread and are now panicking; it can be done. You must be determined and I think willing to re-learn, re-educate and put in some hard hours...but we've been here just 10 months, and it's been a great move for us and very empowering as a family.

 

I guess Diane is right though, and I'm not been sarcastic when I say we really did take two jobs away from Australians. Maybe though (likely too), that the income we're spending, the places we're visiting, the people we're meeting, the businesses that we'll set up in the future; will employ more Australian's than we could ever take jobs from.

[Lazy Cow]

I do question the fact that a moderator on a migration site wants to stop migration...I'm thinking there is a contradiction somewhere in there.

 

It really has been hard road; and I feel like by putting in those (very) hard yards, we've earnt the right to the jobs we've managed to secure. We cast aside our comfortable life in the UK to make a go of it elsewhere. We're paying taxes, spending every cent we earn on food and putting that back into the economy...Maybe I'm biased, but if someone has the guts to do that, I really feel that they deserve to have the chance to make a success of it.

 

Finally, go on a tour of the UK. In fact go on a tour of most of Europe and parts of the US. I promise that Adelaide and surrounding suburbs look a thousand times better. There are much less empty shops, no deserted towns/high streets - what this place needs is optimism that we will ride the storm - and compassion so that we band together and help each other out.

 

Rhetoric on hate and negativity isn't really going to help.

 

To those that want to make a new life, have read this thread and are now panicking; it can be done.

 

1. Yes, this is a migration forum. It allows people to voice concerns, share experiences, find friends, debate current affairs etc. People are always asking for reassurance that they will find work when they get here and this thread might make them realise that yes, the sun's still here but no, the jobs aren't necessarily. IMHO, it is better to be aware of the work situation and how that might actually affect someone looking for employment.

 

2. When the SA government advertises a shortfall in skills, it is my understanding that there are no people already here that can offer that skill where it is needed. If it is needed in Adelaide, migrants with that skill should stay in Adelaide. If it is needed in Iron Knob, then the migrants should go there. As for (and this is a sweepng statement but) the people who choose to migrate here, well, we do it for selfish reasons; it suits what we imagine we want from our future. Migration is a two-way street - SA gets something; the migrant gets something. Australia is not a third-world country, we are not migrating here because someone will die if we don't.

 

3. Maybe people here are worried that if the number of migrants continues to rise - don't care what your country of orgin is - then Adelaide will end up closing more businesses and streets will become more deserted, just as has already happened in the UK. If the cost of living continues to go up whilst money coming into our households fails to match those increases, it surely has to have a negative affect.

 

4. Could you please point out the 'rhetoric on hate and negativity' as I think I've missed it

 

5. Of course a new life here is still possible. But whether the experience other migrants have will be as positive as yours has been so far, that's anyone's guess. This thread might help someone make a more informed choice. It's easy to tell people to come on over 'cos everything's fantastic......but is it necessarily the truth?

 

LC

[Guest Helchops]

Numbering your points seems really aggressive.

 

I'm not here to start a war, just saying 'you know what, it's not all bad'.

[Lazy Cow]

Numbering your points seems really aggressive.

 

I'm not here to start a war, just saying 'you know what, it's not all bad'.

 

Sorry, Helchops, it was purely an attempt to answer your points in a kinda logical way; I'm not an aggressive person. (unless you attack my dogs...or the kids lol!)

 

Debates only work if people have different opinions, then allow those opinions to be addressed, which is what I feel I've done.

 

I don't think any of us here think it's all bad. It's my home and I love it here but that isn't what the thread is about, is it?

 

​

[guspjmh]

I agree with Helchops here (but I would, given my situation). I do not believe there is any evidence showing that skilled migration is, or can be harmful to the recipient economy. There is however bundles of evidence and studies showing the contrary. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but from what I've seen on SEEK and from speaking to recruiters the employment market in Adelaide is infinitely more healthy than the UK right now.

 

Consider the situation if migration were stopped - you'd have an ageing population without the skills required to build a sustainable long term economy.

 

The skills shortage list is also not going to be 100% accurate right now, it's a prediction of the skills going to be needed for South Australia to grow into the economy it hopes to have. An example of where it seems like there are no jobs and the shortage list is wrong is in teaching which constantly makes the lists - yes there is supply, but virtually no permanent positions. WHy? Because there are loads of teachers in the 50-60 age group a few years from retirement. What happens if they all decide to leave over a couple of years and you don't already have the required skilled teachers 'on the ground' ready to go?

Edited April 25, 2013 by guspjmh

[jim and adel]

I'm not here to start a war, just saying 'you know what, it's not all bad'.

 

It was a hell of a long post to say just that!

​

[Naughtons]

I've been pondering this one since the thread started. Normally I'm the first to get involved with contentious topics, but I'm trying to calm down a little and see both sides of a story...so, here goes...

 

Diane, I do question the fact that a moderator on a migration site wants to stop migration...I'm thinking there is a contradiction somewhere in there. I think you've been saddened by recent turns of events personally, and I think you could be lashing out at the people you see who could be responsible...i.e. the people stealing the jobs...i.e. me, and many members on here.

 

I have only just moved here with my family and we couldn't be happier. It really has been hard road; and I feel like by putting in those (very) hard yards, we've earnt the right to the jobs we've managed to secure. I would be genuinely hurt if someone actually meant it when they said I shouldn't have those jobs and somebody else, who had lived here longer than me, deserved them more. We cast aside our comfortable life in the UK to make a go of it elsewhere. We're paying taxes, spending every cent we earn on food and putting that back into the economy...Maybe I'm biased, but if someone has the guts to do that, I really feel that they deserve to have the chance to make a success of it.

 

Free trade demands that the most qualified people secure the jobs suitable for them. Personally I feel that it shouldn't matter whether you're from India, the UK, or Eastern Europe...if you can do a job better than me, then good on 'ya and go for it - that's surely the receipie for growth and success...hard work, self improvement etc. Bear in mind, I don't say that lightly as I have a family to feed and I know only too well the pain of suffering financially - but I don't believe that free trade should or does award complacence.

 

I've also been on the employee and employer side of the coin - and to the 'temporary versus permanent' argument...You can have a permanent job and think you're safe; but when the company goes bust, new owners come in, shake ups etc you can be on the line just as much as anyone.

 

Nothing in this world is certain - not jobs, health, life...to quote a good musical; everything is 'only for now'.

 

Migrants create demand. Diane mentioned that SA is 'behind' in it's population growth statistics. Well, great, let's get more businesses in, more people to create opportunities for demand, infrastructure, houses etc.

 

Finally, go on a tour of the UK. In fact go on a tour of most of Europe and parts of the US. I promise that Adelaide and surrounding suburbs look a thousand times better. There are much less empty shops, no deserted towns/high streets - what this place needs is optimism that we will ride the storm - and compassion so that we band together and help each other out.

 

Rhetoric on hate and negativity isn't really going to help...it's also infectious - but it definitely doesn't help. Let's be positive. Adelaide has a lot going for it, and it's time will come to boom, just like WA...in the meantime, if anyone's short of a hot meal because of a ruthless faceless company making cuts, they're welcome round my place.

 

To those that want to make a new life, have read this thread and are now panicking; it can be done. You must be determined and I think willing to re-learn, re-educate and put in some hard hours...but we've been here just 10 months, and it's been a great move for us and very empowering as a family.

 

I guess Diane is right though, and I'm not been sarcastic when I say we really did take two jobs away from Australians. Maybe though (likely too), that the income we're spending, the places we're visiting, the people we're meeting, the businesses that we'll set up in the future; will employ more Australian's than we could ever take jobs from.

 

Thanks for this Helchops! I (possibly like some others?) felt really de motivated by this thread, especially because like you said it was a moderator that started it. Like others on here, we have put 4 years of very hard work in to getting our visa, and invested a large amount of money with agents/fees/visa fees etc. We are willing to leave our comfortable life, our home that we have lived in for 14 years, our secure jobs, our family, friends and everything we hold dear to invest our skills and future in SA. We know that it wont be easy, and we know that we will have to work hard. We have done this on the basis that our skills are needed, but we are under no illusion that we may have to restart at the bottom and pay our dues, and adapt to the Australian way of life> To write us off at this stage is unfair, I fully believe that we deserve our chance :-)

[jim and adel]

Like others on here, we have put 4 years of very hard work in to getting our visa, and invested a large amount of money with agents/fees/visa fees etc. We are willing to leave our comfortable life, our home that we have lived in for 14 years, our secure jobs, our family, friends and everything we hold dear to invest our skills and future in SA.

 

I'm not of the view that migration should be stopped, but if I were in the UK currently with a secure job, comfortable etc then I'd not be moving out here. At a different time, yes (we did just that!) but not as things stand.

 

Good luck to you.

 

​Jim

[Diane]

...especially because like you said it was a moderator that started it........)

 

You and Helchops seem to be under a misapprehension of what a Moderator is on this forum. I am not the site owner, I am a member of the site who has as much right as anyone else to have views and opinions within the rules of the forum.

[Naughtons]

I guess I am just not willing to give up that easily :-) We are determined to make this work. On the job front, I would not feel like I was stealing a job from an Australian, I am assuming everyone submits a cv and has an interview and the best person for the job gets it? My brother lives in Australia and still says there are plenty of opportunities for people that are willing to work hard. I fully believe you get out of live what you put into it. We have managed to survive the recession in the UK with hard work and perseverance and we are willing to do the same in Oz (but with better weather:-) I am sure when you was at this stage you wouldn't of really wanted to read threads about why you should be stopped from going :-), although, I do understand other peoples concerns and enjoy seeing this from someone elses point of view.

[Diane]

I'm not of the view that migration should be stopped, but if I were in the UK currently with a secure job, comfortable etc then I'd not be moving out here. At a different time, yes (we did just that!) but not as things stand.

 

That's exactly how I feel - not only is the exchange rate horrendous, but the job situation is a lot worse than it has been in the past, the cost of everyday living a lot higher. Yes, maybe it is still better than in the UK, but it is heading the same way in terms of costs - in fact worse as many people who visit the UK at the moment (and my daughter is there currently so I do know what I'm talking about) comment on how cheap everything is in England in comparison to here, so if things don't improve, in a year or two's time, it will be in the same situation as the UK is now.

 

If you haven't already done so, have a read of the Indaily article I posted a link to, where it is pointed out how all the hype about South Australia's economy spouted by politicians and the Advertiser has been revealed as totally without foundation. The "time to boom, just like WA" has been and gone with no boom happening!

[Naughtons]

You and Helchops seem to be under a misapprehension of what a Moderator is on this forum. I am not the site owner, I am a member of the site who has as much right as anyone else to have views and opinions within the rules of the forum.

 

Point taken :-)

[Diane]

....... My brother lives in Australia and still says there are plenty of opportunities for people that are willing to work hard. I fully believe you get out of live what you put into it. ......

 

Does your brother live in Adelaide? I don't want to burst anyone's bubble but there are plenty of people here out of work, or worried about their jobs, who are perfectly willing to work hard, at anything - if the jobs are not there, or the economic confidence is not there, however hard you work, however willing you are, makes very little difference. It's not from lack of wanting to work, I can assure you!

[carryon]

I agree Diane, just got back from UK 4 days ago and realised how cheap food and beer was! But on the other hand the weather was shocking, the roads busy and too crowded, I know where im happier.........Australia!

[Guest smit]

. My wife is a teacher and although there seem to be very few permanent positions, there does appear to be a good deal of relief teaching, so i suppose in those circumstances you have to take what you find, impress, and hope to earn a permanent position.

 

.

I know a teacher thats been here 7 1/2 years and still cant get a permanent job, still on contract and still having to reapply for jobs every year or half yearly!!

[geoffuZz]

This thread has really messed with my head now for a few days... My family and I are arriving in September and it has really added an extra worry to the stack that I already have... I've written 3 answers and deleted all up til now, but feel I have to write something.

 

I would say that to stop people emigrating to South Australia would make the problems that the state is experiencing even worse. According to what I read, the South Australian population is one which is in decline and the population is older than other states. Without the influx of people from overseas, expats or other, the population would actually shrink and this surely will not promote investment or growth and eventually will lead to the state being one big OAP home (which I already heard in other posts). Good for care workers perhaps, but not for others...

 

It is a kind of chicken/egg situation I guess, but I think, and I'm no expert, that by increasing the population with young, educated and skilled people who are full of energy (that's the "migrants" that you question whether they should be allowed to come) can only add to the communities and create a need for investment in the state. Bigger population surely means bigger government budgets, more business, need for housing, need for schools, need for hospital staff and more promotion of South Australia.

 

You stop migration and you would probably put a few of the members of this forum out of business - imagine how many others would realise a drop of business without the migration of what - 4000 people per year?

 

That's all I have to say in the matter. I had to say something.

 

I hope that when we arrive we don't get people throwing tomatoes at us because we came to take their jobs...

 

Geoff.

[guspjmh]

I know a teacher thats been here 7 1/2 years and still cant get a permanent job, still on contract and still having to reapply for jobs every year or half yearly!!

 

I know two who came out less than two years ago, impressed on their relief teaching and landed permanent contracts. I'm not saying your friend is a bad teacher, but I think like with most jobs if you impress someone enough, they won't want to lose you.

[Lazy Cow]

This thread has really messed with my head now for a few days... My family and I are arriving in September and it has really added an extra worry to the stack that I already have... I've written 3 answers and deleted all up til now, but feel I have to write something.

I hope that when we arrive we don't get people throwing tomatoes at us because we came to take their jobs...

 

Geoff.

 

Lol! Geoff, please don't worry about people throwing tomatoes, if only because they're pretty expensive at the moment!

 

No, sorry, that was me being facetious. I'm truly sorry if this thread has added to your concerns. Emigrating is full of concerns but I would imagine finding work is one of the top. I expect you were worried about finding work before you read this thread and it's just made it worse, which sucks.

 

I don't think anyone is claiming you definitely won't find work - or that if you're willing to work hard and have a positive attitude you will find a job. (It helps obviously but there are usually a few more things to factor in lol)

 

i wish you and your family - and any other family waiting to join us here - all the best. And if I were to give you any advice at all, it would be to integrate into the community (and not just the pom one!) as quickly as possible. Learn our ways, language and expectations and enjoy your new life!

 

LC

[Guest smit]

I think like with most jobs if you impress someone enough, they won't want to lose you.

Not always the case, When things get tight its more like keep your friends in jobs, even though they might be crap!!.... and trust me, I know, Ive been there!!.