Clairvoyants and Religion WHY ?????

[Guest smit]

 

Logically, how can a piece of wood ,and a pointer and a glass tell you anything? And it was so interesting that you haven't done it again in which case you have no real evidence upon which to base your opinion. You have one experience which has not been recreated since therefore you have no evidence to suggest that it was not a fake or an accident.

Logically......nothing.

And this is how written forums and debates dont quite go the way of verbal ones......because all the info never gets written. Yes I had one experience, in the words of Spock, illogical, BUT, my experience in no way was a fake or accident and it changed the opinion of a complete disbeliever.

 

as i said before ......each to thier own;) no probs

[Guest Libby1971]

Smit, I have no experience of an ouiji board really. If it worked for you, then fair enough. I have only seen mildly dramatic and highly suspect portrayals of what an 'authentic' board session should be. So I am already put off by how tacky it is. Again, my experience. At some point, if you ever feel like telling me, I'd welcome to opportunity to find out more, if that's not too personal.

 

As for mainstream religion, I'm curious as to what is meant by that.

[sueoc]

My God!I cannot believe this one. Clairvoyance yes,but to question the validity of religion and peoples beliefs on PIA?Well it leaves me speechless.Inappropriate and unnecessary on a migration forum.

[Guest Guest75]

My God!I cannot believe this one. Clairvoyance yes,but to question the validity of religion and peoples beliefs on PIA?Well it leaves me speechless.Inappropriate and unnecessary on a migration forum.

 

It's in the Barbie though so more leeway here - if kept civilised;)

[sueoc]

It's in the Barbie though so more leeway here - if kept civilised;)

Hmmmmm!

[Guest Guest75]

Hmmmmm!

 

Hmmmm back to you too.

A much better thread than some of the rubbish this last week and at least fairly inthe right place.

Good to let people have an intelligent discussion.

It might be keeping them from arguing elsewhere as well;)

 

Next is "Do I use trebles or singles to retain large Snook?"

I actually have the answer

[Guest JayBone]

Poms in Adelaide is a community forum for Brits living in Adelaide, and Brits emigrating to Adelaide.

There are 17 different forum titles on the site, some of which offer advise on Migration issues, which I used a lot during my visa application, some for shipping advise and rentals etc, some are just here for general chit chat and debate, such as ‘The Barbie’

If the site only catered for Migration issues, it would be completely void of anyone who had already moved and had the experience to share and would therefore be of very little use to new prospective Migrants. It would only be a reference website, like the DIAC website is.

Would expats already living in Adelaide, some for decades, come on this site if it were purely to help people with their migration issues? And there were no social aspect to it?

I feel that people come on here to see what is happenning in the local area, meet ups and gossip etc, and if they see a thread in which they think they can help, they undoubtedly will.

[Guest sarahsmartiepants]

Hmmmm back to you too.

A much better thread than some of the rubbish this last week and at least fairly inthe right place.

Good to let people have an intelligent discussion.

It might be keeping them from arguing elsewhere as well;)

 

Next is "Do I use trebles or singles to retain large Snook?"

I actually have the answer

Yep I agree its the best thread on here for ages, it is making a very interesting read and so far evryone is acting their ages!!

 

Libby I am with you on the believing in the clairvoyant and communicating with beyond, still talk to my dad after 16, not sure if he really answers me, or its just I know what he will say, but I dont really care! But I am too scared to go in case I dont like what I hear or I get a con one!.

As for religion I think it was made up like a police force to keep people in control, later used by men to keep women in control and still used by some religions to keep women in control. I think there was a jesus, and Libby has said the man DID exist (see you learn something every day!) and I think over the years the story of him grew and grew like chinese wispers!!

 

One thing though..does religion and clairvoyants go hand in hand, must we be religious to believe in the afterlife???

[Guest lastboyscout]

Hmmmm back to you too.

A much better thread than some of the rubbish this last week and at least fairly inthe right place.

Good to let people have an intelligent discussion.

It might be keeping them from arguing elsewhere as well;)

 

Next is "Do I use trebles or singles to retain large Snook?"

I actually have the answer

 

Is it trebles???

 

I`ve got a 50/50 chance of being right

[Guest Guest75]

Is it trebles???

 

I`ve got a 50/50 chance of being right

 

Ya wrong! No cigar!

The clue is in the word "large" - I've been dropping large ones as I get them in just to the side of the boat.

Trebles are OK for smaller Snook though.

[ozzieclare2be]

I think these things are all very personal, i certainly wouldnt dog anyone for their beliefs and nor would i expect the same to be done of mine. Does God exist? Blimey i studied philosophy at A level and i still dont know, same goes for any supreme being. I had huge faith as a child.

That said i try to live a spiritual life and believe in Karma, sometimes i think there is a God and sometimes i pray, id say my spirituality is more buddhist, which is not a religion in a western sense its more than that, more a set of philosophical/ethical system to live your life by in order to find enlightenment (nirvana is not a place though the rock band were great) .

 

I have God in my life though now after many years and i dont think its a sign of weakness in fact i think it takes true strength to believe in anything, but each to their own.

 

I think whatever you put out into the universe whether thats prayer or thoughts comes back to you somehow

[ozzieclare2be]

As for religion I think it was made up like a police force to keep people in control, later used by men to keep women in control and still used by some religions to keep women in control. I think there was a jesus, and Libby has said the man DID exist (see you learn something every day!) and I think over the years the story of him grew and grew like chinese wispers!!

 

One thing though..does religion and clairvoyants go hand in hand, must we be religious to believe in the afterlife???

 

 

I used to think the above too but usually thats fanatical /fundermentalists, not all religious people are like that, i know my own mother wasnt lol. (although she was about not leaving lights on ). I think any system will always have an element of control be that religion, politics, education etc. I dont think theres anything wrong with adapting some elements into normal everyday life .

 

Blimey sarah the women being controlled in religion thing is a whole huge debate, and christian feminism is not for the light hearted!! But i ultimatelyrespect your beliefs.

[Anne B]

My God!I cannot believe this one. Clairvoyance yes,but to question the validity of religion and peoples beliefs on PIA?Well it leaves me speechless.Inappropriate and unnecessary on a migration forum.

 

Must admit I tend to agree with you Sue. Not my cup of tea. I just haven't bothered to read it......

 

I don't think it's a problem having it on the forum, I just hope all the threads don't go this way.

[Guest cornish Busdriver]

Gday Lib.

Interesting reading.

First as you say "there is no such thing as THE Bible " why in courts are people ask to place there hand on this book and swear to it ????.

 

Second i asked any you answerd "how does the church know that it hasn't got the meaning and translation wrong? The short answer is: it doesn't." If it doesnt and not sure why does it preach knowing it could be preaching the wrong message ???.

 

Third and i totally agree with you when you say "There is proof that it wasn't just a child's story as children had no rights or authority. The men did. So if it is a load of rubbish, as you claim, then it is a MAN'S load of rubbish as they are the only ones who were listened to in the first place and it is a MAN who had the idea in the first place. And it is also a MAN who wrote it down as they were the only ones who were educated for many many many years. And it is also a MAN who passed it onto other MEN." This is what i mean, it been passed down from generation to generation and just like chinese whispers things get exagerated, words get twisted, people invent things to add to it and the list go's on. So how could anyone trust and believe in anything like that knowing this.

 

Forth "If religion has too many questions without answers in order to be believed, then what is the alternative? A world that has hatred and violence with no hope of peace? A world in which there is nothing to believe in and that you have no opportunity to feel like you are doing something?" Totally disagree with you. Religion has been the biggist cause of Hatred, Violence, Brutality and Ethnic Cleasning this world has ever seen, where ever it has been in instigator of it or done in its name it is still responseable for it. With out religion and having something false to beleive in it would take away a lot of the worlds problems linked to it like taking out the radicals, stop the "my religion is right and yours is wrong" , How dare muslims build a mosque in a christian country.

Religion has been the cause of most of the problems linked with different cultuers so without it it couldnt make the world any worse and if anything would improve it as people would have more respect for each and themselves plus would not begiven false hopes, idea's and as you said there is no such thing as the bible and the original meaning might have been lost in translation.

 

Five. Gotta say this made me laugh "I disagree that religion would be found guilty - I think humanity would be found guilty. Humans beings decide to hurt, kidnap, rape, murder, rob, abuse, torture other people, animals and anything else it can think of. It is not religion that tells people to do it. Every religion, and I mean every religion, has a Golden Rule - treat others as you would want them to treat you, with respect and kindness. It's just a bit open to interpretation as to what that means."

Religion has been the insigator of all the atrositys done in its name, you really have to be nieave, gullerbel and very narrow minded not to see that and it because of peoples mis-interpretation of it.

Insurance companys use religion as a way of getting out of paying people by using the term "act of god" so is this another way of it being mis-interpreted or mis-used. So religion could also be done for the cause of insurance fraud.

 

Six. Bugger me twice im agreeing with you lol lol "Re: the twin towers, some people did say that it was God's will that it happened to punish people for their greed and selfishness. They said the Twin Towers was a symbol of that which is why it was destroyed. Me? I say an evil sick bunch of b*stards did a horrific unimaginable act of evil and seeing as they killed themselves and avoided justice and punishment," To me i think its just a bunch of sick radicals who mis-imterpreted there there religion and so once again religion reared its ugly head and a sictk atrosity was done in its name.

 

You quote a lot from the bible lib and knowing as you said about how the meening and translations have been changed and re-written on numerous times plus mis-interpreted are you sure that you can trust such a thing.

[Diane]

This is a very interesting thread and there are some great and well made points on both sides that have certainly given me plenty to mull over. What a good discussion should be!

 

Thanks to all those who have taken the (considerable) time to post up some excellent posts here.

 

I'm still undecided personally, but I like to have all the facts and all the arguments before making up my mind about anything and this is great.

[Guest lastboyscout]

Just want to go back a little in this thread and to something that Libby said ...

 

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

I think this bloke has something you know!!!!

 

Think your usage of `Godwins Law` was a little premature LOL

[Guest Libby1971]

This is the BEST thread for bl**dy ages, Tyke, don't you dare close it (well not yet anyway lol)

 

Right points at a time...

 

Godwin's law - it says that if you use it in a forum as a means to close an argument then your accusation that I've used it is true. However, I used Hitler to demonstrate a point which I was and am hoping will continue to prompt debate. If it closes this thread, I'll be gutted.

 

Okay then. I've gone back and want to add bits.

 

Re: war. World War 1, World War 2, Vietnam War, Korea and Iraq are all wars with massive numbers of deaths and casualties that had nothing to do with religion but which were politically motivated. At the time of the Crusades, then everything could in some way shape or form could back to religion but not now.

 

Also, Russia banned religion. Totally. And yet Stalin managed to murder 30 million people in goulags (prison camps).

 

How dare people build mosques in a Christian country? Why do you care? You just said that religion is a load of rubbish so it means nothing to you. However, what about the churches built in Muslim countries...surely Christians have no right to build them either. What about Hindu temples, Buddhist temples, Jewish synagogues or is it just Muslims that you object to? And a Christian country...where did that come from? You're right UK is a Christian country, and its laws are founded upon Christian principles such as are laid down in the teaching of Jesus and also in the Ten Commandments (they're Jewish).

 

Right now science. Atomic bomb. Killed more people than could have possibly been imagined. Religion was not involved when that got dropped.

 

As for translations, historians and theologians (people who study religion and find out about it, why people believe in it, why people don't, looking at the history behind the cultures when the documents were written etc) have for hundreds of years been aware of the mistakes that could have taken place. The Torah, the Jewish law book, is believed to be the actual word of God and so is never translated, or copied except by hand and only by the most highly trained scribes and so we know that the document that is written in 2010 is the same as one from 1000 years ago or 2000 years ago. And we know that because there are copies of those that have been carbon dated and the words are the same.

 

We also have documents 2000 years old from Christianity, written in the original languages and people have devoted themselves to studying those. By learning the languages and the variations (think Scottish vs Cockney) people have been able to return to the original text. And so when we read the Bible, we can see that the more contemporary versions are as authentic as possible.

 

And now the bit that did upset me, sorry Cornish. I am not naive, gullible or narrow minded. I am a theologian, I received my degree from the University of Oxford in Theology. My major was in Biblical Studies and my special area of focus is Judaism at the time of Jesus and the development of the Early Church. Part of my degree was the Philosophy of Religion where arguments just like the ones you have raised are discussed in great detail. We once had a week long debate on the topic of could God create a rock that even He couldn't lift? I also studied as part of my degree Other Religions, including New Age Religons and New Religious Movements. So I would say I am a highly educated academic, who knows her field of study and research. I am also learning Hebrew and Greek in order to find out for myself exactly what the original documents say.

 

My studies have taught me that the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven. The term for someone who accepts that is agnostic, and I do genuinely believe that you can't prove the existence of God using scientific methods.

 

What is the problem believing in God? Blaise Pascal, a French philosopher, said belief in God was a bet. If you believe in God, and there isn't one, you haven't lost anything. If you believe in God and there IS one, then you're right and gained all you hoped for. However, if you believe there isn't one, and then there is, you've lost everything.

 

How would you argue against this theory?

 

Another one (I've forgotten his name!!) said that if you could visualise the most perfect island in the world, then the island existed. Therefore, if you picture God, then God exists too. To reject God so strongly, you must have some clear idea of what God is in order to be able to reject God so thoroughly in which case you must be some sort of believer in the first case!

[Guest Guest75]

This is the BEST thread for bl**dy ages, Tyke, don't you dare close it (well not yet anyway lol)

 

 

No probs.

 

A nice healthy debate in the right sub forum

[Guest smit]

Smit, I have no experience of an ouiji board really. If it worked for you, then fair enough. I have only seen mildly dramatic and highly suspect portrayals of what an 'authentic' board session should be. So I am already put off by how tacky it is. Again, my experience. At some point, if you ever feel like telling me, I'd welcome to opportunity to find out more, if that's not too personal.

 

As for mainstream religion, I'm curious as to what is meant by that.

Remind me when we nextr bump into each other. Not personal it was a bunch of 16/17 year olds trying something........doh!. and what happened is impossible to re create. Nothing mega , but enough for me not to do it again.

[coolerking]

 

 

Another one (I've forgotten his name!!) said that if you could visualise the most perfect island in the world, then the island existed. Therefore, if you picture God, then God exists too. To reject God so strongly, you must have some clear idea of what God is in order to be able to reject God so thoroughly in which case you must be some sort of believer in the first case!

 

Is it Saint Anslem? I had heard of him but had to google. Funny, never realised that a lot of the maths I studied was related to him.

 

Ontological argument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Cooler

[Guest lastboyscout]

Its like the chicken and the egg question!!!!!

 

If a `God` does exist, who created him/her???

[ozzieclare2be]

Its like the chicken and the egg question!!!!!

 

If a `God` does exist, who created him/her???

 

egggactly!!!!! and once you start to study it it can drive you maddddd!! Then we get down to why are we here, the nature of existance, cause and causality arrrrghhh!!! St Thomas Aquanas would be a good place to start for all the above though i dont believe in his theories on sexuality, i respect his ideas on cause and causality though , and if like me you seek to understand stuff then it can really drive you mad lol, because its the arguable quaetion through time and i doubt very much it can be solved, by anyone, but its bloody good to have people in the world who seek to understand.

[Guest SA Great]

Boring boring boring

[coolerking]

Its like the chicken and the egg question!!!!!

 

If a `God` does exist, who created him/her???

In relation to the chicken/egg, undoubtedly McDonalds

 

Cooler

[Guest Guest75]

Can I just say at this point....

I had a fantastic headmaster at my "common" Secondary School who made us think.

He took the awkward ones ( can't think why he included me) and subjected us to 1 hour of philososphy and "thought" per week.

 

Charles Gardiner - you made me think - a terrific gift :notworthy:

 

We once proved conclusively that God did not exist.

 

I wish I could remember how we did it - apparently it is a textbook case.

 

I certainly believe in balance of life - get me & I get ya ( Ooo sorry I meant to bring in the word Karma somewhere)